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The Cesspit’s Dead End

September 11th, 2006 (Visited 3046 times) Tags:

So today, Abalieno/HRose announced that he’s done.

My biggest dream was to be part of things. Not because I thought of myself as the indispensable, unique genius, but just because I love those things and I wanted to be “there”. … But at the end I was here writing on a blog, it was the best possibility I had to get as close I could to what I loved (the ladder to see the stars)…

Real life is only a matter of opportunities, not dreams. The two rarely meet each other, and in general people put their dreams close to the opportunities.

So good luck to everyone who has that “privilege” of being there. I will always look at you with envy ;p

I, for one, think that he was there, and that he’s selling himself short.

You see, this whole ecology of players arguing with developers, and often being right, in defiance of all wisdom about experts versus amateurs, is a fairly recent thing really. It’s nowhere done being a finished conversation, nor are the amateurs anywhere near the peak of their power in the equation.

People like HRose (and Lum before him, and so on) are going to continue gaining in power, in impact, and in influence. What’s more, I believe that more and more of them will be migrating into making things themselves, because the tools for them to do so are continuing to become more available.

It’s also important that folks like him, who bring perspectives different from the mainstream norm, continue to participate in the discussion. We need more broken English spoken by wild-haired Italians (and Croats and Thai and…) in these discussions.

I think that within five years, Abalieno will be able to make his dream come true. By himself, mostly. It may fall flat on its face, it may not. But in the meantime, there’s no reason to give up the dream.

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Faith wrote on September 11th, 2006 at 4:44 pm:

[...] Comments [...]

The original mission | The Cesspit. wrote on November 16th, 2006 at 1:52 am:

[...] Those communities were and are important. They may degenerate into cesspits, but you can find a lot that is valuable in there. Even if I don’t think, contrarily to what Raph wrote (about me, even), that this is a growing trend. What I see is that game companies actively suffocate that kind of dialogue because they think it’s an attack to their own identity, a risk. So we get empty community support, PR and all the current “politically correct” and “professional” behaviours that are concretely just a determinate removal of that kind of direct relationship that we fought for. A few like Raph are left. But they are now just outsiders and unique cases instead of a growing trend that we contributed to build and develop. The point is: we are losing that battle, if not lost already. [...]

Chip Hinshaw said on September 11th, 2006 at 3:15 pm:

Wow - that’s a shame. He was “there”, but I think I understand what he really means.

Morgan Ramsay said on September 11th, 2006 at 3:36 pm:

That’s what happens when you use Drupal… Jokes aside, I don’t quite understand what this was about.

Abalieno wrote:

Real life is only a matter of opportunities, not dreams.

Dreams are opportunities.

… the weight of what I haven’t done than what I have done.

A common feeling among achievement-oriented individuals. I get that feeling sometimes, but I chase that feeling away by looking forward, developing a strategy, and setting specific and measurable objectives. Realizing opportunities, and thus realizing dreams, is really just a matter of time and effort. This becomes clear when you sit down, create a checklist, prioritize what you want to do, and set deadlines. It’s very important to write these things down.

My biggest dream was to be part of things.

What does it mean "to be part of things"? I read through Abalieno’s “dead end” post, and I couldn’t find a single reference to what he wanted to achieve. Did he want to design games? Did he want to be influential? What did he want to do?

“Being part of things” is easy. Join a club, such as the International Game Developers Association. Join a chapter of that club, such as the San Diego Chapter of the International Game Developers Association. Become an organizer. Get involved.

Want to become an influential? Blog. Write a column for Gamasutra. Write an article for The Escapist. Publish a book. The key is to talk about what you know best. Nobody likes know-it-alls and generalists are rarely successful. Specialize. And market yourself. Blow your own horn and get others to blow your horn for you.

Want to enter the industry? Apply for a job in quality assurance. People think it’s difficult to “break into the industry”, but it’s not, if you’re realistic about what you want to achieve and how you’re going to make that happen.

I entered the industry without a specific position in mind. I appled for a job in quality assurance at Sony Computer Entertainment America. They hire in batches of forty. After the project ended, I joined Sony Online Entertainment. I discovered that I really enjoy quality assurance, but I know other people do not. They either leave the industry or move to a different job. The interesting part is that I know several designers who wish they were still in quality assurance. Same deal with producers. There’s a lot you can learn and do just by making that effort and joining something.

If one of your objectives is to learn, chances are that you will never regret the decisions you make.

Bajeezus said on September 11th, 2006 at 4:12 pm:

Well, I certainly think his final post will resonate with many hard-core game-dev forum posters.

Tocious said on September 11th, 2006 at 4:37 pm:

A great shame and a great loss, a fountain of knowledge and wisdom. I truly hope that he just takes a break instead!

Slyfeind said on September 11th, 2006 at 7:21 pm:

I’m living in one of the hotbeds of the gaming industry right now. I literally live between Microsoft and Nintendo. MMOs are being born, living, and dying in my back yard. I know I can do ten times the quality of current designers, and at twice the speed and stability. And still, after three years, the most I’ve done is QA at a couple of ‘em.

So I dusted off my brother’s development tools, and started making games on my own.

I hope you’re reading this, Hrose; and anyone else who may be tempted to give up. It could very well be that the WoW-buster is something made by a bunch of gamers from around the world who met each other on a message board….

SirBruce said on September 11th, 2006 at 7:21 pm:

Wow, I’m surprised to see him go.

But what was his real goal? Did he want to get a job making games? Or did he just want to write about them and make money that way? He seems to have been doing the latter. In some ways, I sympathize… I’ve been thinking about, “wanting” to get into game development directly for a while, but instead I stumbled into my current unique position and my current consulting. That may change, if the right opportunity comes along.

There’s certainly a strong desire to be creative in some fashion, and criticism/journalism is, at best, a pale shadow to the real thing that leaves most unsatisfied. You see this often in other fields like movies, television, even politics. There’s a desire to be participate in that world, be part of “it”, but often it’s easier to get into auxilliary positions that are only tangetially part of “it” and those limitations can often be just as frustrating as not being involved at all.

Bruce

David (Tal) said on September 12th, 2006 at 4:03 am:

If he’s talking about designing games, a lot depends on location, although that’s getting to be less of a factor. If I lived in Austin or San Diego (or several other places on the west coast of the US) I could have been doing a QA job or something years ago, meeting people and developing contacts. But I don’t, and unfortunately there are factors beyond my control that would prevent me from moving. So instead I do infrastructure support, which is something that I’m good at, but that doesn’t really excite me, and I post a lot on message boards.

Good news, I suppose, is that studios are spreading east. For people like me who live thousands of miles across the country from Silicon Valley, and who’d like to be involved in making these things that are our hobby, that makes it a little easier to get in. At the same time though, you do hit a point in life where you realize that you missed your first launch window, so to speak, and it’s going to be harder to make the second - or the third, or the fourth. It can still be done, but it requires more thought, more planning, and more sacrifice than it would have otherwise. It makes you question if the dream is worth the risk. Maybe that’s what hit HRose.

Chip Hinshaw said on September 12th, 2006 at 5:41 am:

you do hit a point in life where you realize that you missed your first launch window

So true - if I was 22 again, without a wife and 2 kids, making the wage I was making at 22, then making the jump to QA would not be so jarring. However, 15 years on, making the salary I make now, and with the family at home … it’s just no longer in the cards. “Launch window” is such an apt term.

I have to say that I felt like I was reading a suicide note, and I certainly hope Abalieno doesn’t soak up too much of what seems to be a lot of negativity. He was contributing quite positively to the mix, so I hope he can appreciate his achievements there.

Chip Hinshaw said on September 12th, 2006 at 5:48 am:

I think also — and not saying this is necessarily the case for HRose — a lot of people seem to look at game development as an ideal escape from the drudgery of their current job and forget that ANY job comes with its share of drudgery. And I’m sure game design/develpment comes with an ample surplus!

Michael Chui said on September 12th, 2006 at 6:02 am:

a lot of people seem to look at game development as an ideal escape from the drudgery of their current job

It’s almost ironic. =P

If anyone wants to escape their current job, I recommend Pam Slim’s Escape from Cubicle Nation, and any number of entrepreneurship stuff.

Hamumu said on September 12th, 2006 at 6:21 am:

Absolutely. I’m an indie developer (true indie: all alone, working out of my house), and it’s a wonderful life. I would never even dream of going back to work in commercial games. It’s a nightmare. Forget drudgery, it’s slavery! I always feel pity for those guys who still do it and think that’s as good as it gets*. More pity to those who aren’t in the industry but are just dying to get there. They know not what they wish for.

* Of course, there are also the ones who do it and truly are in a position to be having real fun with it (how they can put up with publisher/marketing demands with a smile, I do not know!). That’s okay by me. It’s the ones who lament the endless grind, but think that’s what “making games” has to be that are sad.

Grimwell said on September 12th, 2006 at 9:00 am:

Well, that’s a sure shame. One more unique voice lost. I can understand the negative side of what he wrote, but I wish he would have been more clear about what he was after. Abalieno could match his ravings with solid points, but I never saw him identify which golden ring he was going after.

Life gives us all many ‘launch windows,’ 365 of them each year to be honest. My hope is that he wakes up tomorrow, sees the window before him, and goes for it.

BugHunter said on September 12th, 2006 at 10:09 am:

You know, sometimes I really think that there is a group of the gaming “insiders” who get together at GDC and various cons to sit around a table talking about games. The people sitting around the table includes people like lum, raph, pyschochild, zen, moorgard, bartle, etc. I’ve always included abalieno, tobold, van hemlock, J, bruce, and others at the table as well.

The thing is, I’m quite certain this doesn’t really happen in real life. It does happen every single day here on the intartubes. To those of us standing along the walls or hanging out in the doorway, abalieno is “there”, he is/was at the table contributing. I also think other’s at the table were listening when he spoke, not always agreeing, but listening.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but these insiders aren’t very elitist. If anyone wanted to step up and contribute they aren’t turned away. It’s an industry of geeks (of which I’m proud to be called, though in a different industry) for crying out loud.

This is just what I’ve viewed as being “there” though. Working in the industry is a whole different subject.

Allen Sligar said on September 12th, 2006 at 12:46 pm:

I really hope he reconsiders, opprotunity directly correlates to perseverence and belief in your goals. The only reward for quitting is regret. I hope hes reading this as well, because its important for him to know that many voices, good voices are required to improve things, and his was one.

I’ll have to agree with Morgan about his views on learning, learning is a toolset required to identify opprotunity.

Thereâ€™s a desire to be participate in that world, be part of â€œitâ€, but often itâ€™s easier to get into auxilliary positions that are only tangetially part of â€œitâ€ and those limitations can often be just as frustrating as not being involved at all.

Life gives us all many â€˜launch windows,â€™ 365 of them each year to be honest. My hope is that he wakes up tomorrow, sees the window before him, and goes for it.

These two comments are so interconnected. Part of whats important is to iterate on what you know, which is also why learning is so important, and to enjoy what your doing, if you love what you do the rest follows. I’ve been in a number of fields, medicine, IT, policy, consulting, law, business etc. Part of it is finding your “place” by using the skill sets you already have, and learning your new enviornment, to me thats actually enjoyable and fun.

For example I enjoy data anlysis, data mining. I also enjoy games, I enjoy them so much I think that data might be helpful in making them better and thus GMM was born. I sure hope I’m right, but on the off chance I’m not then its been awfully fun finding out! (even if a bit costly :(, However I’d never consider game “design”, “marketing” or “consulting” as a role, mainly because after many years of sitting in meetings I have found I enjoy the mines much better!

This is what I mean about fidning a place you enjoy, there are no launch windows, only launch pads :)~~~~

Good luck HRose, hope you come back…

Psychochild said on September 12th, 2006 at 1:26 pm:

Sadly, it seems that HRose/Abalieno has learned the most important lesson: there are no easy answers. Unfortunately, he chose to give up instead of press on. It takes a lot of persistence and dedication to make a go of things, and you are more likely to fail than succeed. It can be daunting, especially since landing your first job can be more an issue of luck than any real worth or value you have.

BugHunter wrote:
Correct me if Iâ€™m wrong, but these insiders arenâ€™t very elitist. If anyone wanted to step up and contribute they arenâ€™t turned away.

Let me say that, at least for me personally, this is 100% true. The biggest problem is that people come into things with unrealistic expectations. People expect there to be easy answers, that making games is like playing games. This is simply not the case.

People ask my advice all the time, and I am happy to give them information as I can. If someone came to me with an idea, I would be happy to help them form the idea, start development, launch the game, etc.

Unfortunately, people rarely have a solid idea of what is needed. Worse, few people are able to follow through. I’ve tried to start a number of very low-budget game projects only to fail at the very basic level: people couldn’t even stick with the project long enough to finish making a website, let alone a whole game. Things require a lot more dedication than people first think.

There seems to be a fair amount of murmuring about this, so I suspect that HRose might come back around. He might need to make an abrupt change in his life to accomplish his goals, though.

My thoughts.

Darniaq said on September 12th, 2006 at 4:25 pm:

SirBruce wrote: Wow, Iâ€™m surprised to see him go.

But what was his real goal?

That’s exactly the same thing I thought, and wondered, when reading it. Was he waiting to be “picked up” by a developer? Did he want his ideas to be his calling card, his way in? I’m only asking because it’s hard to have a goal without a plan to get there. Maybe he just thought people like Lum and MobHunter got their jobs because they ran blog-ish sites?

I’m sorry to see him go, but honestly don’t think it’s permanent. He’s one of those too interested to just give up. I think he’ll be back once he realizes that he can have a plan.

I understand his (and others here) who think they can’t get into the industry because they’re too old, saddled with responsibility, on some life-grind or whatever. I appreciate that. However, I can say with certainty it’s never too late. You may not want to enter the industry at the ground floor as a programmer. Crunch time and 30-something familyfolk don’t mix too well for long But there’s a lot of paths into the gaming industry because even moreso than MMOGs, games themselves are incredibly diverse.

Work it backwards. What do you really want to do? Not “design an MMOG”. That’s not really a role. Think more along the lines of what part you’d want to play on the team that delivers the experience? Want to build it? Support it after launch? Write quests for the game? Design levels? Build worlds? Project manage/produce it?

Think about your own company, particularly if you work in a large one. MMOGs are large games requiring many functions. You’d need to spend time building your rep to eventually be a Creative Lead or even a Lead Designer, but there’s more ways to start than just learning code and hoping for the stamina of a 22-year old

Trin said on September 12th, 2006 at 5:07 pm:

Perhaps I’m wrong - which seems especially likely with all the posts of confusion - but I was always under the impression that his goal was simply to “be there”, to be recognized as one valued in commentary of the MMO community. So I understood his quitting more as frustration of seeing little in the way of effects from his efforts. Comments to his site were few, and references rarer. But when he did get referenced (here for instance) it was often within a day, so I would think he would know that he was being read and considered. I suppose only he could say what finally decided that it was time to stop.
This thread of comments certainly shows he was there. So hopefully Darniaq is right, he’ll see this and realize he is/was valued and will return :D. If he is gone though, I’ll miss him, his concrete view of how the worlds should be and his [broken English] description/argument of why. Even more, I’ll miss his dream MMO and the ideas that would have composed it.

Michael Chui said on September 12th, 2006 at 5:33 pm:

I notice that part of the reason he’s leaving is because he decided to a year ago. I don’t know what that decision was based off of, but it makes me wonder, in light of the comments here, if he looked at the decision with fresh eyes. He also mentions not being able to afford it. I don’t know what the cost he was paying was, or who he was paying it to.

One of you people with real webspace (i.e., not me) should get him to export his blog for your archives.

Also, shortly before Raph asked what our ideal MMO would be, I had the same thought, except one of my main non-game-related projects over here in “reality” (which has a well-known liberal bias) is a community thingymajig and I wanted to set that up before inviting people to play.

I think that should be done. If you guys want to wait for me to put it up, then it’ll probably take me a year, assuming I remember. At which point, I’d like all of his dream MMO posts to be archived on it. It would be rather nice to have a serious and democratic design of an MMORPG, even if we never get published or developed. Just for kicks, and hey, maybe someone will pick it up. Or the design will be cheap, and we can do it ourselves. =P

…hm… I seem talkative again. I don’t quite know how, since I just walked out of a meeting.

David (Tal) said on September 12th, 2006 at 8:07 pm:

I understand his (and others here) who think they canâ€™t get into the industry because theyâ€™re too old, saddled with responsibility, on some life-grind or whatever. I appreciate that. However, I can say with certainty itâ€™s never too late. You may not want to enter the industry at the ground floor as a programmer. Crunch time and 30-something familyfolk donâ€™t mix too well for long But thereâ€™s a lot of paths into the gaming industry because even moreso than MMOGs, games themselves are incredibly diverse.

It’s nice to read all the encouraging words. I hope my comment above about the “launch windows” didn’t seem overly negative. I know there’s been a few times since I was fresh out of college, starry-eyed and going “wow, I want to do online games for a living” where I ran into one of life’s speedbumps and said “yeah, I want to do that, but I need to pay the rent”. And it sucks. It’s very depressing, especially the longer it goes. But that’s no reason to give up hope. If you want something bad enough, you never give up on it.

So yeah, for those of us who aren’t “there”, whatever “there” may be, one day hopefully we will all get “there” - and hopefully before we’re all at retirement age

And truthfully, if I’d gotten my dream job and gone into game making at 24, wow those games would have sucked. I’ve learned a lot since then just by being a player and listening So, a slower start just gives you more time to refine your ideas.

Hopefully Abalieno is reading these and other reactions elsewhere and will reconsider giving up on his dream.

Wolfe said on September 13th, 2006 at 12:51 am:

Its rarely the weight of things you havnt done that stick around. What lingers with weight are the emotions of caring deeply and focusing the mind on soft and undetermined structures. Its addictive on a deep level and its not a skin you can shed, its more like in the blood and the skin will grow back in a similar but improved shape someday.

Craig Huber said on September 13th, 2006 at 4:41 am:

I would be interested in knowing a little more about the specifics behind this decision (not that it’s really any of my business). It’s the loss of an inspired voice, never an easy thing to let go.

For example: was it a result of indecision on what path to attempt, how best to achieve his goals in a reasonable amount of time, without too much side-tracking? (That one I can easily understand… I wrestle with it constantly.)

Somehow, however, simple “disappointment that it wasn’t easy” just doesn’t seem to fit his personality, at least as much as could be gleaned from his writing.

Allen Sligar said on September 13th, 2006 at 8:28 am:

Michael Chui-

I think I understood what you were suggesting insofar as an archive for game ideas/blog like a searchable repository or forums? If thats what you had in mind I have plenty of server space just email me directly via contact@gamemarketmetrics.com, I can hook you up as long as it dosnt impact our development schedule (100 days to go!)

covert.c. said on September 13th, 2006 at 8:31 am:

Psychochild said…

I can personally vouch for this. Brian - you totally rock, man.

Slyfeind said on September 14th, 2006 at 2:14 am:

I think he wanted people to talk about him. And we fell for it!

Michael Chui said on September 14th, 2006 at 8:41 am:

I was talking about him anyways.

And Allen, did you get my email? Just wanted to be sure you received it.

Allen Sligar said on September 14th, 2006 at 8:54 am:

I’ll have to check it this afternoon. I’m deep in cost containment report purgatory today

Michael Chui said on September 14th, 2006 at 9:14 am:

No problem. I have a record of my copy, so worst comes to worst, you could just ask me to send it again. There’s no rush. Or I could paste it here… it’s not like it’s super secret anyways. =P

Brian Rucker said on September 18th, 2006 at 9:41 pm:

I think older folks, like me, just don’t have enough time, or inclination to learn how to code from scratch or want to try to wrestle at a late stage in life with trying to break into a whole new industry. I really can’t speak to what HRose was trying to do, or achieve, but the reason I participate (to the extent I do) in forums talking about games isn’t to influence developers or to get a job. I want other players, engaged consumers, to see my ideas and say, “Oh, yeah, that’s what I was thinking but I didn’t know how to say it.”

And then they do. And they will. And when enough of them are saying it maybe then developers will listen. Doesn’t matter much to me if my name’s attached or not at that point. I’m just in it for the games.

At least that’s my subversive plan.

Michael Chui said on September 18th, 2006 at 10:15 pm:

Incidentally, he made one more post. Those of you who weren’t following or dropped him from your feeds might’ve missed it.