Raph's Website » AGDC08: Moving From MMO To Web: What’s The Story?

AGDC08: Moving From MMO To Web: What’s The Story?

September 22nd, 2008 (Visited 2813 times) Tags: agdc, agdc08, flash, social networking, speaking

Gamasutra has coverage of the other panel I was on at AGDC.

Finally, why did all of these developers leave their jobs at major MMO studios for the world of the web?
Koster’s response seemed to sum up a lot of the inspiration among developers who have come to love the web as a platform.
“It isn’t so much about the size of the market, though that’s important,” he said. “And it’s not even about the six year long [traditional MMO development cycle]. To me, it’s about the greater capacity for personal expression. There’s a great capacity to touch people. it was about empowering everybody. Working on the web now reminds me of working on the internet before the web was around, where it was much more community-driven and participatory and exciting and end users have their say. It feels like you can accomplish everything.”

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site.

Raph's Website » Lessons Learned, and gaming folks using web ways wrote on October 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pm:

[...] blog that gives a lot of insight into exactly all the sorts of things that I was referencing in that AGDC panel on how we have to adapt to web ways of doing things. Be sure to read through the [...]

Billy said on September 22nd, 2008 at 2:02 pm:

I can’t speak from a MMO perspective but I think the sentiment is similar across many visual mediums. There is an excitement that comes to being able to communicate directly with your audience, almost like the relationship a musician has with a listener – the tech is so ubiquitous that it seems very intimate.

I think the problem is that “the web” in general seems to create the habits of interaction with it, otherwise we’d be deluged in information overload. When you make the decision to pop in the cd and play a game you’ve committed your time to playing the game. It’s hard to get that if you’ve discovered a web game via a link. Usually you’ll play the game for a few minutes, get the gist of it and move on.

Hopefully we can find ways in the future to appropriately frame user experiences and break them out of YouTube-itis.

Michael Chui said on September 22nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm:

Usually you’ll play the game for a few minutes, get the gist of it and move on.

As an n of 1, I want to cite myself as a counterexample to this, and I think there are legions of Solitaire players backing me up. I’ve had no problem playing various games for hours on end… off Kongregate. That may be a remark on their site design or metagame (I like earning badges, and will stick to one if a badge looks reachable; however, I also enjoy playing a number of the games with no (more) potential for badges).

Still, the web remains comparatively untamed, especially if you look at the crop of up and coming MMOs. I couldn’t stomach a number of the booths at PAX because they were selling this MMO or that one. Eye candy movies are ridiculously boring. Though I do regret not getting a Support Piracy shirt…

It’s not the 1980s, sure, but at least it’s not MMOs.

This cynical outlook brought to you today by the letter W.

Eolirin said on September 25th, 2008 at 9:51 pm:

@Michael, just out of curiosity, how long will you tolerate boredom before moving on? As in, the game’s not very engrossing, at least at that moment, so do you play through that period of boredom hoping it’ll improve, or do you move on? An engrossing game is an engrossing game, and it doesn’t matter if it’s a small flash game or a big epic 3d game; as long as it’s continually fun, it’ll hold you.

But I think I would have to somewhat agree with Billy though, in that the “boxed” experiences offered by other games have a higher tolerance for moments of dullness, where flash, while it can be very engrossing and extremely entertaining, lacks that to an extent. I think that’s kinda the core of it. There are many rambling epic RPGs that I’ve only played all the way through because there was an end point that I was heading toward; I wanted to get to the next story bit, or whatever. Things like the badges you mentioned can help bring that to the flash stuff; you’re working toward a goal now, so the moment to moment experience doesn’t count so much anymore. But I am very curious as to whether you’ll go back to a more mediocre game, or a stick through a mediocre part of a game if there’s no carrot dangling.

Michael Chui said on September 25th, 2008 at 11:58 pm:

[NOTE: This turned into a long-winded ramble. I'm too tired to prune it, so.. sorry. Probably TMI.]

@Michael, just out of curiosity, how long will you tolerate boredom before moving on? As in, the game’s not very engrossing, at least at that moment, so do you play through that period of boredom hoping it’ll improve, or do you move on?

Pretty long, by my standards. I’m occasionally willing to sit through a good long, boring play period if I know I’ll get some points for it, though more often than not, I’ll go surf for more games instead.

Sins of a Solar Empire, for instance, has lost my interest. I’ve gotten all the low-hanging fruit Achievements, and my friends don’t organize games anymore, so I don’t feel a need to practice, and the gameplay is a touch on the boring side. I wouldn’t mind picking it up again if I’ve got someone to play it with.

So, in summary, carrots are an effective hack to circumvent leaving from boredom.

It’s like a job. If I’m getting paid, why would I quit? There has to be A carrot. If the carrot is the promise of points, or extended enjoyment, it’s still a carrot. Whether or not a game should offer X type of carrot is a completely different question. Sounds suspiciously like a moral or ethical question.

If it’s a bad game, then why are you playing it? Because you bought it? Pssh. That’s like saying, “Oh, I jumped into this pile of manure. Obviously, I should therefore stay here a while and enjoy it as best I can, to get my time’s worth.” Throw the game away. Or enjoy your new coaster/frisbee/chainmail ring. I bought “Epic of Evolution” like… a month ago. Managed to drag myself through the first chapter before I decided I couldn’t stand the author anymore. I’m not sure where I put the book.

I still go back and play games that I have all the available badges, etc. for, or even those I have no hope of getting the remaining badges. Because they’re fun. Heck, I still play Minesweeper, even though there’s no way I’m ever going to beat my records.

It’d be worth asking, by the way, how many people go back to playing Spore. I bought it last Friday, played it pretty hard over the weekend (clocked about 13 hours total), and I don’t find myself remotely motivated to go back to playing it. And I liked it. I think that’s really odd.

AGDC08: Moving From MMO To Web: What’s The Story?

5 Responses to “AGDC08: Moving From MMO To Web: What’s The Story?”

Meta

Recent Comments

Categories

Tags

Recent Trackbacks

Archives

Twitter @raphkoster

Academics

Comics

Game devs

MMO devs

News/Forums

Other

Players