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By N2H
Welcome to Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books.

The lifecycles of a player

June 16th, 2006

A while ago, a poster in the comments thread asked what I thought the lifecycles of players were. I don’t think there is only one lifecycle, is all. I know of several models that have stood up over time, so here they are, briefly described.

Randy Farmer’s Path To Ascension

This one comes from The Social Dimensions of Habitat’s Citizenry.

The entire point of any thriving community is people. Habitat is an interactive environment where people define the parameters of their experience. Thus it is important to understand how people behave in these cyberspaces. In Habitat I observed five distinct patterns of usage and social commitment:

  • The Passives ["they want effortless entertainment"; 75% of the userbase]
  • The Actives [committed regular users]
  • The Motivators ["They throw parties, start institutions, open businesses, run for office, start moral debates, become outlaws, and win contests."]
  • The Caretakers ["They help the new players, mediate interpersonal conflicts, record bugs, suggest improvements, run their own contests, officiate at functions, and in general keep things running smoothly."]
  • The Geek Gods [admins]

(Annotations mine).

In the Path to Ascension, Randy basically posits that people need to be encouraged to move up the ladder. In my experience, rarely do we see someone who is successful at being a Geek God without having gone through the other stages.

So that’s one path of development, taken from a fairly social-centric world.

Hedron’s Circles

A while back, a UO player named Hedron posted a whole bunch of intriguing design articles. One of them was a postulate he called “Circles” describing the growth of achievement-oriented players. It makes an interesting contrast with Randy’s path.

  • First Circle players are newbies who just want to survive.

  • Second Circle players are competent, and start to feel like the game is “fun.”
  • Third Circle players are excelling. They’re also often cheating, as they take on the tough stuff.
  • Fourth Circle players are about proving their mastery by either killing other players or mentoring them.
  • Fifth Circle players are “done.” They need new challenges, which they might get by an alt, RP, moving to forums, guild play, a whole new game…
  • Sixth Circle players are enlightened Zen beings that understand everything and every mode of play and blend them seamlessly.

You may notice that this approach has some real commonalities with A Theory of Fun. Circle One is about seeing the patterns as noise; Circles 2 and 3 are about recognizing the patterns, and even arriving at means to bypass them in exactly the way I describe in the book. Circle 4 is about exercising mastery, Circlce 5 seeks new challenges, and Circle 6 is grokking the pattern completely.

Bartle Types

Both the above are referenced by the lifecycle that Richard Bartle described in his book Designing Virtual Worlds. In this, Dr. Bartle presents an expansion of his player types grid, converting it into a cube. He also identifies some trajectories through the types, which encompass to some degree the above two models.

His initial pass at a progression, with four types, described what he called the “main sequence.” It ran thusly:

  1. Killer

  2. Explorer
  3. Achiever
  4. Socializer

So players start out testing boundaries, then learn more about their environment, then play the game, then end up staying for their friends.

His more complex path through all the types can be seen here in this quickie photo (I didn’t take the time to scan it or reconstruct it, and it will only make sense if you are familiar with his expanded player type model): Edit: Morgan supplied the diagram I was too lazy to make!

Bartle player lifecycle picture

My observations

I’m going to offer up just a few points built mostly on anecdotal evidence as regards these models.

First, that Achiever to Killer is a very common path. Once the game’s opponents are no longer interesting, being limited by crude AI, actual other players offer a better challenge. A lot of people never want to take this step, and it’s arguable that they are driven not only by the fact that they dislike PvP, but also by the fact that they are statistically certain to lose most of the time.

Second, that in many ways, we are all heading for a Socialization Destination. Everyone gets bored of a given virtual world (again, cf. Theory of Fun). They then hang out there only because it’s where their friends are. The games in these worlds are like the beer at a bar, the rides at a carnival. They are diversions, and the point for most ends up being the other people.

Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play.

*

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  1. Faith wrote on

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  2. Boing Boing: Lifecycle of a gamer wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. Link (via Wonderland) [...]

  3. Victors :: View topic - lifecycle of a gamer wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/16/the-lifecycles-of-a-player/ Found this post that has some fairly interesting points about people at the new stage of a game through to the stage where they are only there because friend are still there. Some of it is quite relevant to our group and the online games we play. [...]

  4. Poor Mojo Newswire: The lifecycles of game players wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Raph’s Website � The lifecycles of a player # First Circle players are newbies who just want to survive. # Second Circle players are competent, and start to feel like the game is “fun.” # Third Circle players are excelling. They’re also often cheating, as they take on the tough stuff. # Fourth Circle players are about proving their mastery by either killing other players or mentoring them. # Fifth Circle players are “done.” They need new challenges, which they might get by an alt, RP, moving to forums, guild play, a whole new game… # Sixth Circle players are enlightened Zen beings that understand everything and every mode of play and blend them seamlessly. [...]

  5. witnesses wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. Link (via Wonderland) [...]

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  7. SGC Community Forum -> Lifecycles of a Player wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/16/the-l…es-of-a-player/QUOTE First, that Achiever to Killer is a very common path. Once the games opponents are no longer interesting, being limited by crude AI, actual other players offer a better challenge. A lot of people never want to take this step, and its arguable that they are driven not only by the fact that they dislike PvP, but also by the fact that they are statistically certain to lose most of the time.Second, that in many ways, we are all heading for a Socialization Destination. Everyone gets bored of a given virtual world (again, cf. Theory of Fun). They then hang out there only because its where their friends are. The games in these worlds are like the beer at a bar, the rides at a carnival. They are diversions, and the point for most ends up being the other people.Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. QUOTE Third stage: I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like Creslin? :blink: [...]

  8. Wonderland wrote on

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  10. newsBreaks.net wrote on

    links from Technoratiand the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play.Link (via Wonderland) [IMG]

  11. Prole. wrote on

    links from Technoratiand the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play.Link (via Wonderland) [IMG]

  12. theblogverse.com wrote on

    links from Technoratiand the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play.Link (via Wonderland) [IMG] Link

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  14. ApathyAntipathy wrote on

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  19. awkBOMB! || Gamer’s Theory 101 || June || 2006 Online Video Games Blog : Gaming Explosion wrote on

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  20. one for sorrow, two for joy wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. Link (via Wonderland) [...]

  21. Haizeak wrote on

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  25. Dark Diamond Network wrote on

    Heal your gaming woes with the gamer cycle of life!

    Raph Koster, game designer and theorist, wrote a little piece on what he calls the life cycle of gamers. He adds to his insight some other related gamer cycle models that illustrate the attitude an individual takes in a virtual world. You are bound to …

  26. Blue's News - All the carnage that's fit to post! wrote on

    links from TechnoratiThe lifecycles of a player on Raph Koster’s Website. Thanks Mike Martinez.

  27. sua cuique voluptas - everyone has his own pleasure wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. Link (via Wonderland) [...]

  28. Read Message wrote on

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  29. The lifecycles of a player on Raph Koster - MMOz wrote on

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  30. Nishi's Blogosphere wrote on

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  31. Semi-OT - Lifecylces of gamers - Topic Powered by eve community wrote on

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  32. Force Feedback.nl - Nederlandstalige MMO Community wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] "The lifecycles of a player" Raph Koster, ontwikkelaar bij SOE die betrokken is geweest bij spellen als Ultima Online en Star Wars Galaxies, heeft een interessant bericht geplaatst op zijn blog. Hij praat hierin over de "lifecycles of a player", de diverse fasen waar een speler doorheen gaat tijdens de periode dat hij of zij een MMO speelt. Lees dit bericht door hier te klikken. [...]

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  35. The Daily Graze » Notation for Structural Specification wrote on

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  36. Aggravated Gamers Podcast wrote on

    links from Technoratiare intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life”read more | digg story

  37. Random Encounters wrote on

    links from Technorati Multiplayer game designer Raph Koster offers some observations on the Lifecycles of a Gamer: In many ways, we are all heading for a Socialization Destination. Everyone gets bored of a given virtual world. They then hang out there only because it’s where their friends are. The games in these worlds are like the beer at a bar, the rides

  38. Aggravated Gamers Podcast » Lifecycle of a Gamer wrote on

    [...] “Age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life”read more | digg story [...]

  39. Loading… » Blog Archive » Newbie or Zen Master? wrote on

    [...] I was asked my opinion on a recent Raph Koster article, titled ‘The Lifecycles of a Player’. Raph touches on a few different theories, none of which should be new to anyone who has been a part of the industry for a significant time. I agree with just about everything Raph mentions. [...]

  40. Raph’s Website » User created content wrote on

    [...] Damion Schubert wrote a blog entry about this pyramid, adapting it to MMO play specifically, and when looked at through squinted eyes, it has a lot in common with Randy Farmer’s Path to Ascension. The interesting thing about these models is that they assume that participation, that creation, that contribution, are in some way more to be valued. This is a deeply held assumption that I happen to share, but that often gets overlooked and not carefully examined. Why is “consuming” content such a dirty word? [...]

  41. Team Phoenix [PnX] :: View topic - Lifecycle of a gamer wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Interesting article. Here is an excerpt: Im going to offer up just a few points built mostly on anecdotal evidence as regards these models. First, that Achiever to Killer is a very common path. Once the games opponents are no longer interesting, being limited by crude AI, actual other players offer a better challenge. A lot of people never want to take this step, and its arguable that they are driven not only by the fact that they dislike PvP, but also by the fact that they are statistically certain to lose most of the time. Second, that in many ways, we are all heading for a Socialization Destination. Everyone gets bored of a given virtual world (again, cf. Theory of Fun). They then hang out there only because its where their friends are. The games in these worlds are like the beer at a bar, the rides at a carnival. They are diversions, and the point for most ends up being the other people. Third, that age, gender, and behavior are intimately related. Aggression is tightly linked with certain playstyles, including achievement. Anecdotally, many of the most aggressive players I have dealt with have been people in aggressive, confrontational, or dominant roles in real life, such as cops, lawyers, and the like. And of course, teenage males charged up on testosterone tend to drift to the aggressive roles as well. But as they age, older males tend to act more like female players do all along, losing interest in the overtly aggressive play. Full article here: http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/16/the-lifecycles-of-a-player/ [...]

  42. ... wrote on

    links from Technoratianyone will come with. Remember the point is to drink while it’s light out. Jordie out stuff: -chinese government to release 30,000 hours of music digitally to world pitchfork -finished this it took about half an hour vectorpark -life cycles of a gamerraphkoster

  43. Wonderland wrote on

    links from TechnoratiRaph’s Website » The lifecycles of a player Useful, brilliant, insightful.

  44. Corporate eLearning Development: Lifecycles of Players? wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Lifecycles of Players? Raph Koster is one of the smartest people I’ve ever met.  And I only met him briefly at the Second Life party in S.F. during the Game Developer’s Conference.  I love his book, A Theory of Fun.  And I recommend the book to everyone; parents, kids, instructional designers, software developers, everyone.  Many of his blog posts go far deeper into game theory than I can understand, however this post is quite relevant to recent discussions and learning projects with Secondlife and other MMO tools.As a mere lvl 21 Orc Warrior I’d say I’m at the second circle within WoW. [...]

  45. Kevin's Daily Link wrote on

    links from Technorati Raph’s Website » The lifecycles of a player

  46. del.icio.us wrote on

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  47. Usage Statistics for grimwell.com - June 2006 wrote on

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  48. Target Your News wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] The better you target your news, the greater the number of interested people who will see it. Learn More (it’s free!) Logged in as demo. Login Feedback Discussion - Register (no email required) - del.icio.us demo accounts - CleverCS - Web 2.0 Del.icio.usSearch Everyone’sSubmitted Links My TargetedLinks My TargetingLinks My LikedLinks My DislikedLinks My SubmittedLinks Link Targeting Raph’s Website » The lifecycles of a player - http://www.raphkoster.com/... games, community, sociology, psychology, culture, videogames, interesting, theory, players, gaming more like this / fewer like this - reply - targeting - surf 0 points, 0 liked, 0 disliked, del.icio.us import, 20 bookmarks, 35 days ago In Habitat I observed five distinct patterns of usage and social commitment: –photophunk The link above is currently targeted to 0 people based on the targeting rules below.Resubmit the link above to improve its targeting rules. Link targeting determines who will receive the link as a targeted link. However, it is the link score that determines the ranking of that link among targeted links. Consequently, accurate link targeting is critical for a high link score. Spam too many people with poor targeting and most of them will just vote your link down, thus reducing its rank among targeted links. Learn more. resubmit link above (so you can improve its targeting) No links found. For quick and easy link submission, drag and drop this bookmarklet to your browser’s bookmarks toolbar: Target Your News Submit [...]

  49. Enigmatic Ramblings: June 2006 Archives wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] The Lifecycles of a Player The More Things Change…and if you haven’t read it before, Players Who Suit MUDs. The first two are articles by Raph Koster, who was a lead designer on Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. The last one is by Richard Bartle, who created the first MUD.Personally, I agree with most of what these articles say, at least in my experience. I’ll probably comment more on these later, but that’s a fair amount of information to digest. [...]

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  51. disobey.com | content for the discontented wrote on

    links from Technoratiwithin carefully limited circumstances; most people cannot draw, but anyone can color inside lines, or trace. If the games require serious commitment and challenging creation tasks equivalent to drawing from scratch, they will have smaller audiences.” The lifecycles of a player: “A while ago, a poster in the comments thread asked what I thought the lifecycles of players were. I don’t think there is only one lifecycle, is all. I know of several models that have stood up over time, so here they are, briefly described.”

  52. Diamond :: View topic - Random musings wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Full musings set finally since I have a few weeks of time on my hands: The perfect trick to play on that hot girl you hang out with Lifecycles of a player [not a joke; interesting] Mitch Hedberg’s 20min Comedy Central Presents…. Everyone loves Magical Trevor.. - I love this one Stephen Colbert vs Stone Phillips - Gravitas Rematch Could you pass the test to become a US citizen? - I’m sure Graves knows the answer to #19 Yay freedom! Think Different Funniest game of Tetris you’ll see all day That’s Ka-blamo! - when you’re mining for coal and you forget what coal is Kabumei: Art of the Sharpened Grenade Kickass Light-saber Fight - good twist ending Jedi Breakfast - live long and prosper bitch Lecture Musical - very well done for a lecture hall prank “60 Minutes” segment on The Colbert Report - Anyone can READ the news *to* you; I promise to FEEL the news *at* you I have plenty more to post over the next week or so that I have free, but to end this edition is probably my favorite clip from the show Lucky Louie. A great show on HBO if any of you have it. Lucky Louie answering “Why?” [...]

  53. Law & Games Seminar » Blog Archive » Readings for Second Session wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Raph Koster, The lifecycles of a player (June 16, 2006) [...]

  54. Bad Moon Rising :: View topic - Quick/easy levelling - Design of The Burning Crusade? wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] (Upcoming Theory-craft! The basic gist is that Blizz knows what they’re doing in terms of allowing us to level so quickly in TBC. There is a large amount of lateral content planned for level 70.) Well, if you’re like me you’re looking at the people who were saying “It takes as long to get from 60-70 as it did to get from 1-40 or from 1-60,” and you’re wondering what pharmacy they’ve been to and how did they mix the common household drugs. It looks to me, and I could be wrong, that it’s possible to get to 70 within a minimum of 28 hours played. That was a record set by a guy who had his guild killing mobs he’d tag. Even still, the ability to level so quickly instills a mild bit of fear in my heart. Will the expansion be over before Blizzard releases new content? Will we be able to have something to enjoy for a long time? Some of us may be thinking that the answer to the above questions are: Yes, the xpac will be completed by most very quickly, and we’ll be bored before Blizz gets on it. I would like to say that that may not be the case. I’ve been learning a little bit about MMOG economies today. They appear to run rather differently than real world economies because in MMO economies it’s possible to create value out of nothing (or a bit of time). Essentially it is very easy to create new wealth and so inflation can get out of control verrrrrrry quickly. In order to curb this there are a couple of tools that game devs use, as seen in the link below. http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/ If the above -is- the case, then one can see why Blizz would make the level cap so low, and the levels so easy. Basically the levels are easy because gaining them proceeds on the same curve as the previous 1-60 levels did. One could postulate that Blizz did this in order to maintain a contiguous gaming experience from 1-X (where X is the current level cap). The reason the cap wasn’t raised higher, while this could be baiting the consumer, is simply so that the game won’t die out as fast. Either that or it’s the most expedient route to provide new content. Designing linear content of a similar volume to the content in TBC may actually have taken more work than designing the lateral content that appears to be in TBC right now. If that is not the case then one can still fall back on the idea that designing Linear content, in terms of a greater level cap, would create such inflation when the population hit X level that the game would quickly collapse under it’s own weight. Proceeding in a slow linear manner and a quicker lateral manner appears to be what Blizz is doing. There was a lot of lateral progression at 60 and look how long it kept us playing I’d also say that the economy isn’t as inflated as I’ve heard it can be in games like FFXI. So the plan appears to be working. If that’s the plan Blizz also appears to be using money sinks to reduce the amount of cash in circulation. I think the strongest examples would be Epic mounts and the Tier.5 armor quests. Follow that up with the Epic mounts in outland going for 5k gold one starts to see some fairly massive money sinks. Crafting, while it returns to the crafter, is also a money sink, and now that I think of it, the crafting system may actually be designed such that selling finished products is supposed to generate very little profit (as so often has seemed to be the case). So inflation goes down due to there being less free gold. The lateral content appears to come in at 70. One has two major dungeons to explore(The Caverns of Time and Karazhan), each with a couple of wings, plus a heroic difficulty mode. With all of that lateral content and a stable economy almost forced due to game mechanics it seems that TBC will have a lot more life in it than just 60-70. Your thoughts?! Other interesting links: http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/16/the-lifecycles-of-a-player/ http://crystaltips.typepad.com/wonderland/2005/03/raphs_keynote.html Link on SWG’s Economy: http://www.boingboing.net/2004/05/03/star_wars_galaxies_e.html_________________ [...]

  55. Friday, I'm in love... with coffee! - Page 5 - The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™ Forums wrote on

    Kramer auto Pingback[...] Originally Posted by PastorInsanity I’ve been amazed with the kinds of psychological insights RPGs have provided me with… http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/16…s-of-a-player/ [...]

Reader Comments
  1. Zell said on

    I like the circles. They resonate most clearly with what I’ve seen.

    One thing I’d suggest is that the degree to which aggressive play like PvP correlates with personality depends a lot on the game. If a society feels suffocatingly calm and social to a player, they may well just go kill someone in what is partly an attempt to stir up some activity. But a place like WoW can pop into a battleground and kill people for 20 minutes, there’s no disruptive component. Thus it’s probably very difficult to disentangle statistically what kinds of people do what where.

    Ancedotally I can say that a stunning number of women I’ve played with over the years have found PvP to be exceedingly liberating, become very good at it, and are often among the most bloodthirsty players in the group.

  2. Charles Ellis said on

    Have there been any studies into what might happen with Hedron’s circles, or your levels of pattern recognition, in a world where the pattern changes so significantly, often enough, that people aren’t able to ever fully master it? Would this be more of a detriment to the community, or would players adapt and possibly avoid the rest of the game in favor of just socializing?

  3. Raph said on
    No studies that I know of. But these two cases have been made:

    1. That too many frequent changes leave the player confused and more likely to quit, particularly if their investment in the game is destroyed.

    2. That frequent changes keep the game fresh, resulting in longer player lifespan.

    I can see both being true, actually, depending on how invested the character is, and on where they were in their own Circle advancement.

  4. Jythri said on

    Well, while we’re analyzing player masses, I’ll toss this in the ring for a slightly different angle:
    DAVYN’S ROLEPLAY SCALE

    This was an observational article I wrote about three years back after having built three 1000+ member RP communities (Collective of Old Fennin - EQ, OTLC / Division 9 - AO, Vagabond’s Rest - SWG). Please note that the pretty chart is in no way based on actual numbers, but is simply a visual representation of my previous perception of where the mass of players were. It’s likely very different now.

    All that said, I still think my general categories of how players relate (and progress) through the art of roleplaying are still fairly sound.

  5. Allen Sligar said on

    “1. That too many frequent changes leave the player confused and more likely to quit, particularly if their investment in the game is destroyed.

    2. That frequent changes keep the game fresh, resulting in longer player lifespan.”

    I think this is spot on. The different player MO’s are interesting. Im just wondering how “frequent changes” are defined? Are these game mechanic changes? content additions? It seems to me that (at least as a player)frequently changing rule sets lead to #1 where frequently changing content especially where there is room for “discovery” leads to #2

    Also Im wondering is there a schedule usually projected out for change? say: “In Q3 of year 2 after release we’ll be on expansion #2″ or rather is it subjective say: “Hey I think people are getting bored, maybe we should work up some ideas for a new expansion”

    Im finding every day that the game industry as a whole is not only idosyncratic, and quirky, but strangly does not follow and type of standardized business model….heheh one begins to wonder if a higher caliber of organization and strategy leads to better games?

  6. Athela said on

    Regarding frequent changes, my basic thought is players can accept changes if they have some choice in the change.

    I’m thinking of expansions for an mmorpg or add on mods for Oblivion for example. You are able in these cases to control what changes are made. There are, oddly, to me many people who complain about expansions and mods and they needn’t buy them at all…so where is the threat? I’ve actually thought about this a good deal lately playing Oblivion. There it is, this wide open world with so many things to do, and once you buy it, noone can ever sweep in and change it from the ground up on you. The world remains, if you wish, always the one you bought and entered looking for adventures. It makes single player games once again much more interesting in a way than mmorpgs, just for the security of the world. Childish but there it is. Noone dares move my Khajiits cheese!

    As I look at upcoming mmorpgs, I am now very wary as I read developers thoughts and comments. It is important to me, before I commit to entering their world, to know that they are comfortable themselves with the world they are making, and have a set plan for the future.

  7. Darniaq said on

    A few months back, I tried a different approach, though of course with far less expertise, and with mixed impressions :)

    1. That too many frequent changes leave the player confused and more likely to quit, particularly if their investment in the game is destroyed.

    2. That frequent changes keep the game fresh, resulting in longer player lifespan.

    That’s a great breakdown on the type of change. If a game has fans, they want variations on a theme and toys, in my opinion. If the game needs new fans, the game needs something radical enough to potentially alienate some of its strongest proponents, who by nature are pretty conservative about deep changes (because they like what’s there already).

  8. Michael Chui said on

    It hasn’t really stood up over time, I guess, but you didn’t include Bartle’s mapping of the player progression onto Campbell’s Hero’s Journey. Also not sure how to describe it briefly… I’ve tried, before, and never really got a solid grip on how to do it.

    Roughly speaking the Departure is when the player begins to play, Initiation is when the player is immersed, gets better at playing (effectively going through the circles), and the Return is when the player is no longer *cough* addicted. =P He also throws in Campbell’s idea of getting something out of the journey.

  9. Athela said on

    Is the basic point of all the cycles of player life theorizing that people will just come in, play then move on to something else no matter what you do? Except for those “conservative” types who won’t budge? Are you arguing then that games should always change, sometimes drastically, in order to keep the player base moving?

    If so, then the future is in mmo’s rather than mmorpg’s because a “virtual world” where you can have both community and a “virtual life” with home and economy and cities etc. is stagnant and counterproductive to the herding through of fresh people who will have nothing invested in the game world and who will accept any changes as a “new shiny”.

    God forbid anyone should buy a Corvette of a game and go out in their garage one morning to find it replaced with a Harley equipped with rocket launchers and have the nerve to say hey…wait a minute here. Coffee talking. :)

  10. JcMaverick said on

    I just have to say that Hedron’s Circles sounds alot like The Inferno by Dante Alighieri. I was just wondering of there was any influence there.

    -JcMaverick-

  11. Amaranthar said on

    I agree, Athela.
    Look, you can make important changes ala restart and piss off half a good deal of your players, and make some happy. Or you can add things that are exciting without changing the basics and make everyone happy, or at worst not piss off many customers.

    I hated all the changes in UO over the years for this reason also. Instead of adding Mondain’s bones leading an army on a march towards Castle British, they altered combat to extremes, changing the face of it to new unbalances and new problems. They never built tools for event mods to use to be able to add interesting game play, they never developed the idea’s Raph has recently put forwards, they never developed community, they never developed AI, they never enhanced art (much), so much they never did. Yet they went from worthless archers to god shooters, tamers to dragon rulers, bards to control freaks, etc. etc. Much of what they’ve changed has ruined aspects of the game that were very appealing, such as the current item based game that has all but destroyed trade skills except for the top tier powergamers. On the plus side, it’s not hard at all now to find a lot to place a house.

  12. Raph said on
    JcMaverick, I edited your email address out of your post so that it wouldn’t get harvested by some bot and spammed…
  13. Michael Chui said on

    I think that some of the lifecycles refer what happens to a player in just one game, as well as to a player in one genre, or their lifetime experience as a player.

    But yes: you can’t retain a player forever. It just doesn’t happen. Those that do stay around in a pseudo-forever (Bartle refers to it as “Master of Two Worlds” in his Hero’s Journey analogy; the hero, in this case the player, transits between the real and the fantastic without hindrance, having “mastered” the fantastic; alas, Campbell’s book was not one I brought back to SJ with me, so I can’t reference directly) are so rare that you can’t build a business model on them. In the end, failing to anticipate churn may very well ruin an otherwise good game.

    Under Raph’s theory, players grow out of the lessons offered by a game; in order to continue to interest them, either they will make up new ones (metagaming, cheating, sometimes griefing), stay for other reasons (socialization, community, anticipation of changes), or you have to provide them with a change in the game (expansion packs, patches, content additions). My personal stance is to use well-designed PvP to give them something to do, to cut GM-controlled story from it, because it gets in the way, and let things grow by themselves, spending admin time on pruning and cultivation.

  14. Ryan said on

    Sounds pretty reasonable…I liked Bartle’s player lifecycles when I read them in Designing Virtual Worlds. I think the anecdotal evidence makes a lot of sense.

    I’ll have to agree with the Achiever–>Killer path that is incredibly prevalent in World of Warcraft. Players level to 60, then realize they want to PvP…But it might be because there’s nothing else to do as well =).

    My experience seems to have been something more like Explorer–>Killer–>Achiever–>Socializer…

    I got in and just wanted to know what the world was like and what was possible…Then after I had looked around some I got comfortable and started to grief some. Then I grew up and finally got patient enough to try to get some level/kit…and finally I really just liked playing with friends, and the game was just a diversion as Theory of Fun suggests.

  15. MikeRozak said on

    Some random thoughts:

    (Raph’s player lifecyle) + (If players spend less time in each MMORPG that they play, since all the MMORPGs practically the same) =

    1) You’d expect to see MMORPG subscriptions get more “bursty” as everyone tries the new game, gets bored of it in 2 months, and goes on to the next new thing. (This effect is offset by new players that have never played MMORPGs before.)

    1a) The burstiness encourages guilds to form social structures outside the game, such as their own BBS and chat rooms (or voice chat). Thus, guild members can socialize no mater what game they’re playing. => “Social ties” don’t lock players into a game as strongly as they once did. (Is this true?)

    2) Those that get permanently bored will (a) stop playing altogether, (b) go directly to PvP in something like Halo2 or a PvP-specific MMORPG (Eve online), or (c) go directly to a free chat room.

    3) It all leads back to innovation and pushing the envelope so that (a) and (c) players come back.

  16. Michael Chui said on

    (Is this true?)

    I’ve heard that story since post-EQ, of entire guilds uprooting into new ones. I’ve had friends of friends drop out of games to play WoW (and coming back, too). Guilds have stronger and stronger context-less structure. It doesn’t help that game culture is, as a norm, a chat about the next game: gamers are generally used to changing games every so often. They likely expect roughly the same from MMORPGs: it’ll be old news in a few years.

  17. Rik said on

    Is this true?

    Yes. One guild I was a part of that started in EQ and moved elsewhere I joined in City of Heroes. City Of Heroes branch died the day World of Warcraft opened and we had our guild charter there signed in hours of getting thru the queue. I’d say we do see people getting easier and easier to uproot again once they start, looking for the new shiny instead of digging in looking for hidden gold, much the same way the high divorce rate isn’t nearly as bad if you just look at people who only get married the one time.

  18. jimbo said on

    Players are also human beings. Think Kohlberg. To think that one has captured somthing about human beings in general through an analysis of how they interact or don’t in MMORPG’s is both true and false. At about the ‘level’ of motivators, one might realize that this is merely a proxy for real life, including the bad, and decide to do something about why one escapes into a virtual world every night. On the other hand, why is it that one needs to escape into such a world. Surely, if the real world were better, as it certainly could be, and one thought he/she could do something about it, one would spend her/his energy changing the world. So, where is this going bad? I certainly engage in my own escapism with MMORPG’s or I wouldn’t be posting. So…

  19. Allen Sligar said on

    “Is this true?”
    Good examples given, I’ll provide insight into how a so called large (not sure of the academic term used “mega” or “meta” guild?) guild works, in my experiance. And I mean by large approximately 250 actives across say 3-5 games at any one time. You can almost see overtly the actual lifecycles taking place on the guild forums. As a group experiance no less.

    The guild strucutre is loosly made up of casual mature gamers with a PVP centric bent (but PVE power gaming to the point of transition from player => killer) this guilds been around since M59, and has been in every major MMORPG since. As I said often crossing multiple games as either partial “migration” or full fledged abandonment of a game takes place.
    We have beta tester forums, we have any number of members testing any number of games, many times multiple games at the same time, we report on our progress and likes/dislikes of each game, without breaking NDA, this subsequently influences our game migration as a whole. Usually we coordinate our efforts on a games launch to dominate not only the economy, PVE and rapidly get to the point of PVP dominance. This gets detailed to the point of choosing the server, choosing the start location, and listing the classes/skills everyone is going after. Example: guid size was 300 people the 1st month after WOW was released (we picked up players we knew from other games, (i.e. they trusted and knew our guild tag), and beta testers that had met our beta testers etc). Current Example: Guild size diminished, serious discussion going on about next migration. This is a power gaming guild, many of whom have known each other for 10+ years. We communicate regularly/daily via forums, vent, phone, IM etc.

    Perhaps disregarding the current toolsets available to guilds like this (who often coordinate as many of them have cross membership) is perhaps a recipe for disaster. Say a 250 members x say 3 years of active subscription
    recipe.

    “If so, then the future is in mmo’s rather than mmorpg’s because a “virtual world” where you can have both community and a “virtual life” with home and economy and cities etc. is stagnant and counterproductive to the herding through of fresh people who will have nothing invested in the game world and who will accept any changes as a “new shiny”. ”

    This guilds response to having a virtual world with no community, no home, no economy, no cities, no effect of pvp on the wolrd at large (DAOC vs WOW), frequent changes, where your investment is negated……is massive migration….which usually influences other guilds of the same size and leads to posts such as “What game did you guys move to?”….so its an exponential effect.

    Its the differance between retaining customers in the long term vs opting for higher churn. It must be really hard to balance the barriers to entry for newer players in a game where retianing long term customers is the goal. As thiers a whole competition of new vs established players…

    Just some observations r/t is it true…..

  20. Raph said on
    “If so, then the future is in mmo’s rather than mmorpg’s because a “virtual world” where you can have both community and a “virtual life” with home and economy and cities etc. is stagnant and counterproductive to the herding through of fresh people who will have nothing invested in the game world and who will accept any changes as a “new shiny”. “

    This guilds response to having a virtual world with no community, no home, no economy, no cities, no effect of pvp on the wolrd at large (DAOC vs WOW), frequent changes, where your investment is negated……is massive migration….which usually influences other guilds of the same size and leads to posts such as “What game did you guys move to?”….so its an exponential effect.

    That assumes that the virtual world doesn’t have multiple whole games embedded in it. I mean, like, adding a whole EQ or WoW or CoH or whatever every once in a while.

  21. Michael Chui said on

    I’m swerving a bit off-topic here, but…

    On the other hand, why is it that one needs to escape into such a world.

    There is a different depiction of Fantasy that is suggested in both Tolkien’s “On Fairy Stories” and Margaret Weis’ foreword to “Treasures of Fantasy”, where she says that there isn’t really much difference between a napalm strike on a village versus a dragon burning a village to ashes… but one is more beautiful. Campbell, as I interpret him, argues that the fantastic is a way of inculcating social beliefs in an acceptable way. You might find it silly to grow crops by a particular ritual, wherein you invoke this deity or that, but a scientific perspective rehashes it to show that these are times when you ought to, because that crop grows best in the spring, or whatnot.

    Raph talks about how play is a method of teaching lessons; myth is, too. In fact, what roleplaying really is is the synthesis of both of these: you playact a mythical character in order to particpate in that grand cosmic cycle.

  22. galiel said on

    Raph,

    In all your analyses - and they are always both illuminating and insightful - you seem to ignore the significant skew of your sample. You talk about how “players” behave, but what you are really talking about is how the niche subset of potential players who are drawn to the current crop of online games - which are remarkably alike and arguably quite narrow in their appeal in terms of their game type, genre, and playing dynamics - behave. You extrapolate, without sufficient evidence that I can discern, general “laws” about how humans in general play socially, and what their playing lifecycles are like.

    Some, like myself, would argue that the environment and architecture of current MMOs substantially affects behavior, just as environemnt and architecture (both in the physical and social sense) strongly affects social behavior in the “real” world. Thus, differently designed games that center around different social dynamics and player interaction might, in fact, manifest completely different player behaviors and lifecycles.

    If all one did was look at how people behave in collapsed-state, violence-torn, lawless war zones where everyone is armed and there is never enough of anything to go around, then one might reach a set of conclusions about social behavior quite different than if one observed stable, free, relatively peaceful and civilized societies. To extrapolate from the former about how all humans behave is flawed methodology. (there are numerous examples of how study of highly skewed populations (prisoners, or the mentally ill, or white middle-class males, for example) has led to incomplete or even utterly incorrect theories of psychology, sociology, group dynamics and social behavior).

    With all due respect, the population of current MMO players is certainly not representative of the general population of potential MMO players - not only demographically, but certainly psychographically. And the rather dismal view of what motivates, inspires and engages human beings might, in fact, be the highly skewed result of reading a highly skewed population.

    If you have addressed this issue in the past, I apologize for missing it; if you have, it might be more precise to qualify your blanket statements about player behavior. If you have not addressed it, why not?

  23. Amaranthar said on

    Michael Chui said:
    Raph talks about how play is a method of teaching lessons; myth is, too. In fact, what roleplaying really is is the synthesis of both of these: you playact a mythical character in order to particpate in that grand cosmic cycle.

    You’ve hit the nail on the head, I believe. But there’s another nail that’s simpler to see. That of the fact that after all we all have a bit of explorer in us. We all, or most of us, admire the lifestyle of those who go out into the world and do great things. The Laurence of Arabia’s, the Leif Eriksson’s, the Daniel Boone’s, the Lewis’s and Clarks’.
    We can’t get away to actually live that kind of life, nor do most of us really want to, for real. Computer games allow us to not only do so, but to do it safely, without extremes to planning and execution, and to be in our comfortable beds each evening instead of hanging from a cliff or marinating in a kettle on a fire in the deepest forested regions of other parts of the world.

    The Myth part is most important though. It helps to explain the reason why fantasy games do so much better than others like sci-fi. Fantasy, as in swords and dragons, goes farther than any other type in satisfying our inner desires to confront great evil, to discover things that can only be explained by “magic”, to play in a “simpler time” yet meet all those things that go bump in the night. On top of that, fantasy is very familiar to us. We all know orcs and goblins and dragons. Yet they are all diverse enough that we also know we don’t know exactly, so each realms version is still something that can be explored yet again.

  24. Amaranthar said on

    With all due respect, the population of current MMO players is certainly not representative of the general population of potential MMO players - not only demographically, but certainly psychographically. And the rather dismal view of what motivates, inspires and engages human beings might, in fact, be the highly skewed result of reading a highly skewed population.

    David, I couldn’t agree more. But when talking about phychology, I think there’s also more to the gamers currently playing. I strongly believe there’s a silent majority among gamers just as there is elsewhere. A majority who don’t argue politics, don’t argue religion, and don’t argue with PKers (as a simplistic example).

    Looking at the references shown so far, which I agree there’s little else to look at, we have a very old Habitat where one has to wonder how the demographics play out, and we have huge powergamer guilds. We also have exit polls, and I wonder if there’s any reference to what percentage exiting simply didn’t fill anything out. We have message boards, where mostly the same players post repeatedly, and shout down those who go against their grain (remember the silent majority here).

    It seems to me that those who are heard the most are those who are more aggressive, enough so that they spend their time knowing all the finer details of MMO’s, repeatedly involved in posting activity, and constantly look for betas to play.

    Are these people really representative of the general player? Just as you raise the question of would-be players, I think there should be a question about the general player populations, and if they are truelly represented.

  25. Raph said on