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By N2H
欢迎拉夫乌韦科斯特的个人网站: MMOs ,游戏,写作,艺术,音乐,书籍。

A bit on how I think games work 一点就如何我想游戏工作

March 5th, 2006 2006年3月5日

Abalieno at The Cesspit reacted kinda negatvely to “The Healing Game” and raised some interesting points. Abalieno 在粪坑反应有点negatvely 愈合游戏” ,并提出了一些有趣点。 But I think we’re talking past each other to a degree, so I wanted to take a step back, and make sure we agree on terms.但我认为,我们谈论过去彼此的程度,所以我想退后一步,并确保我们同意的条件。 The below is the framework that I am using in thinking about “How Games Work,” which I am thinking about a lot because that is, broadly speaking, the next book.下面是框架,我使用的思考“如何运动会的工作, ”我想了很多,因为这是从广义上来说,在未来的书。

First, there is a part of the game that is the bare mechanics and rules.首先,有一部分的游戏,是光秃秃的力学和规则。 This part is irreducible; if you take it out, what you have left is no longer considered a game.这部分是不可;如果你了,你已经离开已不再被视为游戏。 These bare mechanics and rules form a system that players can interact with; poke and prod the system, and you will get back various responses.这些裸露的机械装置和规则形成一个系统,玩家可以互动;戳和生产系统,你会回来的各种反应。 The player is not in the system, but they might have a very evolved proxy that is (such as a character in an RPG).球员是不是在系统中 ,但他们可能有一个非常进化是代理(如一个字符的游戏) 。

Then there is what might be called “content.” It’s statistical variations on the system.其次是所谓的“内容。 ”这是统计变化的系统。 It’s slightly different input provided to the same rules.这是稍有不同的输入提供了相同的规则。 Keep in mind here we are still oeprating fully in the abstract.请记住我们在这里仍然oeprating完全是抽象的。

Then there is the presentation of the game.其次是提出了比赛。 This is not at all a simple subject, either, and it is tremendously important.这并不是在所有一个简单的主题,无论是,这是非常重要的。 Games without presentation barely exist (there are a few, such as playing chess entirely in your head).游戏介绍几乎没有存在的(有一些,如下棋完全在你的脑袋) 。 Now the mechanics are called “combat” and the statistical variation is called “monsters” and so on.现在的技工被称为“战斗”和统计变异被称为“怪物” ,等等。 Basically, what we have is a metaphor that encompasses the mechanics and the content.基本上,我们已经是一个比喻,包含了力学和内容。

Above and beyond the presentation is another layer of what typically gets called “content,” which includes things like narrative.除了介绍是另一层通常得到什么所谓的“内容” ,其中包括像说明。 Now we’re into familiar territory, so I won’t elaborate too much on this, save to say that instead of being statistical variation on the mechanics, it’s variation on the metaphor.现在,我们到熟悉的领域,所以我不会详细说明太多关于这个,保存地说,而不是统计变化对力学,它的变化对隐喻。

Abalieno is arguing that the healing example is bad because game design should always proceed from the narrative end. Abalieno认为是医治的例子是坏,因为游戏设计应始终从叙事结束。 My example proceeded from the mechanical end.我国例如从机械结束。

I am going to insist that both approaches are valid. Many many games have been created that are classics that started from the mechanical end — particularly in the realm of boardgames, but also in the arcade with things like say, Tempest or Qix .我要坚持, 这两种办法都是有效的。许多许多游戏已经建立的经典开始从机械结束-特别是在b oardgames,而且在与商场一样的东西说,暴风雨或 Q ix。 And many are the classic games that started from the narrative end.和许多人的经典游戏,从开始的叙述结束。 But perhaps most telling are all the games that originated somewhere in the middle — one can easily imagine Joust starting there, for example.但也许是最有说服力的是所有的游戏源自某处中-一个可以很容易地想象J oust开始出现,例如。

  • Were I to do a game “about healing” I would be starting with the metaphor.如果我做游戏“的愈合”我将开始与隐喻。
  • Were I to do a game about wiping disease from the face of Africa, I would be starting with the narrative.如果我做游戏的消灭疾病,面对来自非洲,我将首先说明。

The best games will achieve a marriage of mechanics and metaphor to the degree where you won’t be able to tell where it all began; both will be considered holistically.最好的游戏将达到结婚的力学和比喻的程度,您将无法告诉的地方都开始;都将被视为一个整体。 (They will still be susceptible to the above analysis, however). (他们将仍然会受到上述分析,但是) 。

Seen in this light, we have much to examine and think about in each of these layers.从这个角度来看,我们有很多研究和思考在其中的每个层面。

  • At the mechanical layer , we have issues such as how to design game systems, the thoughts on game design grammars , much of the thoughts on ludology though not all, and perhaps most importantly, the discussion of innovative gameplay.机械层 ,我们有问题,如如何设计游戏系统,思想的游戏设计语法 ,很多想法ludology虽然不是全部,也许是最重要的是,讨论创新的游戏。

  • At the statistical variation level , we have questions such as what is “balance,” emergent behaviors, repetitiveness, game scope, levels , and so on.统计的变化水平 ,我们有一些问题,如什么是“平衡” ,出现的行为,重复性,游戏的范围, 水平 ,等等。
  • At the metaphor level we can have thought experiments such as “The Healing Game” and discussions of whether or not our metaphors are the right ones.隐喻一级,我们可以有思想的实验如“ 愈合游戏” ,并讨论是否不是我们的比喻是正确的。
  • Finally, there’sa ton for all of us to learn at the narrative layer , from maximizing our learning from other media to mastering the tools of storytelling, of art design, of architecture, and so on.最后,每吨有我们大家学习的叙事层,从最大限度地提高我们的学习从其他媒体掌握工具讲故事,艺术设计,建筑,等等。

This breakdown is, perhaps, why game designers must be multidisciplinary.这是崩溃,或许就是游戏设计者必须是多学科的。 After all, the layers correspond roughly to science, mathematics, philosophy, and creative arts.毕竟,层次大致符合科学,数学,哲学和艺术创作。 To make something that works holistically, you’ll need to draw on all those ways of looking at the world.为了使作品的东西全面,您需要利用所有这些途径看世界。

The one that feels irreducible to me, of course, is the core mechanic.一个感到不可对我来说,当然是核心技工。 That is what makes this medium be games, and not something else.这是使这一媒介是游戏,而不是别的东西。

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  1. ProjectPerko: Wheels Within Wheels wrote on ProjectPerko :车轮在车轮上写道

    [...] Raph has posted about layers of game elements. [...]拉夫乌韦已经公布了层的游戏内容。 I have replied, he has replied, I have re-replied, and I suppose he’s likely to re-re-reply.There are four layers, according to Raph, and it seems to be a fine distinction:Mechanics, variations, theme, and narrative.These all reflect on each other, providing and restricting how the others can manifest. 我回答说,他回答说,我已经重新答复,我想他可能重新再reply.There有四个层次,根据拉夫乌韦,它似乎是一个很好的区分:机械,变化,主题,反映narrative.These所有互相提供和限制他人如何才能体现。 In a simple example, the nature of the gameplay in most FPS games means that melee weapons are essentially useless, which restricts your choices of theme and narrative. 在一个简单的例子,性质的游戏大多数医科游戏意味着械斗武器基本上是无用的,它限制您选择的主题和说明。 It can just as easily go in the opposite direction.The thing is, these are all one thing:Gameplay loops circling the mechanics.Mechanics are the basic rules of interaction and “logic”. 它可以轻松地去对面direction.The的事情是,所有这些问题都是一件事:游戏循环盘旋mechanics.Mechanics的基本规则的互动和“逻辑” 。 You can shoot, you can run, you can stack bricks, whatever.Exactly what shooting, running, and stacking you’ll need to dance with is a question answered by his “variations” layer. 您可以拍摄,您可以运行,你可以堆叠砖, whatever.Exactly什么射击,跑步,和堆码您需要舞蹈是一个问题回答了他的“变化”层。 Here, you might have to shoot lots of little, fast guys at long range. 在这里,您可以拍摄大量的小家伙在快速远距离。 There, you might have to shotgun a melee demon.These variations provide the many methods of interacting with gameplay to keep things interesting. 在这里,您可能必须猎枪的混乱demon.These变化提供了许多方法,互动游戏,以保持事物感兴趣。 Sometimes, the rules are simple. 有时候,规则很简单。 In Tetris, the variation is “one of these six blocks will come next, at random.”I think this is intrinsically tied to “theme”. 在俄罗斯方块,变化是“之一,这六个区块将于明年,在随机的。 ”我认为这是内在的联系“主题” 。 Your theme guides your gameplay variation so closely they might as well be thought of in the same breath. 您的主题引导您的游戏变化如此密切,他们很可能会成为思想相提并论。 You don’t put much sword-themed into a ranged FPS, because the variation doesn’t exist. 你不把许多剑为主题的成不等FPS游戏,因为变化根本不存在。 You put gun-themed things in, instead.But what drives these variations? 你把枪为主题的东西,究竟是什么推动instead.But这些变化? When you get sick of “one of six random blocks”, how does the game keep your attention?Why, it puts variations into the variations. 当你生病的“一个随机的6块” ,请问游戏使您的注意?为什么,它将变化的变化。 It leads the theme around by the nose, thus producing hundreds of new variations. 它导致的主题围绕的鼻子,从而产生数百个新的变化。 As you go from level to level in a game, more than just the aesthetics change. 正如你从一级一级的比赛中,不仅仅是美学的变化。 Maybe one level is more open, allowing for more sniper work. 也许一个层次是更加开放,让更多的狙击手的工作。 Another has more puzzles. 另一个更困惑。 A third is about platforming. 第三个是关于platforming 。 Any and all of these are gameplay variations which are “allowed” by the narrative. 所有这些都是游戏的变化是“允许”的说明。 By which I mean, knowing the narrative makes the players think, “oh, okay, that makes sense” instead of “why am I surfing down the side of a pyramid?”There is often more than one kind of gameplay mechanic, and the various gameplay loops interact with the various mechanics in various ways. 我的意思,知道的说明使球员们认为, “哦,这是有道理”而不是“为什么我上网了一侧的一个金字塔? ”往往有一种以上的游戏机械,以及各种互动游戏循环的各种力学的各种方式。 This is what keeps our attention. 这是保持我们的注意。 These variations.Here’s the real question: is there a layer above “narrative”? 这些variations.Here的真正的问题是:有一个层以上“说明” ? [...] [...]

  2. Friendly Tentacle Monster » Blog Archive » Raph’s Website » A bit on how I think games work wrote on 友好触手怪物» blog存档»拉夫乌韦的网站»一点就如何我想游戏的工作写在

    [...] Raph’s Website » A bit on how I think games work [...] [...]拉夫乌韦的网站»一点就如何我想游戏工作[...]

  3. Faith wrote on 上写道

    [...] Comments [...] [...]评论[...]

  4. Addicting Entertainment » Blog Archive » Anti-Establishment is Fun. 成瘾娱乐» blog存档»抗衰建立很有趣。 Work is Not. wrote on 工作还没有。写道

    [...] over on raph’s site, he talked about making a healing game. [...]超过上图的网站,他谈到一个愈合的比赛。 a gentleman over on the cesspit has taken up the flag in argument against it. 一个绅士以上的粪坑已采取了国旗的论据反对。 while his argument reflects some of the same feelings i have, i don’t think he’s conveyed it very well. 而他的论点反映了一些相同的感受我,我不认为他转达了它非常好。 [...] [...]

  5. Mischiefblog » Blog Archive » Settlement and PvP conflict (Amorphous terrain continued) wrote on Mischiefblog » blog存档»外汇交易同步交收结算及冲突(非晶地形续)上写道

    [...] I’ve been thinking about a game based around amorphous and locked terrain. [...]我一直在思考游戏基于非晶和内陆地形。 After glancing over Abalieno’s and Raph’s (among others) discussion of games, I believe the mechanic is amorphous terrain which can be locked by player action, and the metaphor is settlement of a wild forest by a vigorous and adventuresome people. 后掠的Abalieno和拉夫乌韦的(等等)的讨论游戏,我相信机械是非晶地形可锁定播放器的行动,比喻是解决野生森林的充满活力和冒险的人。 (Mechanic and metaphor provide vocabulary, a scaffolding which allows me to explore the game.) Metaphor: the world outside is amorphous Not far beyond the golden fields of the village were serried ranks of forboding trees, the beginning of the wild forest. (机械和隐喻提供词汇,其中一个棚架,让我可以探索游戏。 )隐喻:外面的世界是无定形不远远超过了黄金领域的村庄被林立的行列forboding树木,开始的野生森林。 Good villagers didn’t venture very far into the darkness under the gnarled boughs, only much needed firewood and medicinal herbs could persuade one to enter that dim wood. 良好的村民不敢到很远的黑暗下gnarled树枝,只有急需的木柴和草药能说服一个进入这昏暗木材。 It was rumored that trails shifted and that the way that explorers ventured out was rarely the way that they came back. 据传闻,步道和转移的方式,大胆进行探险很少的方式,他们回来了。 [...] [...]

  6. Addicting Entertainment » Blog Archive » Anti-Establishment is Fun. 成瘾娱乐» blog存档»抗衰建立很有趣。 Work is Not. wrote on 工作还没有。写道

    [...] over on raph’s site, he talked about making a healing game. [...]超过上图的网站,他谈到一个愈合的比赛。 a gentleman over on the cesspit has taken up the flag in argument against it. 一个绅士以上的粪坑已采取了国旗的论据反对。 while his argument reflects some of the same feelings i have, i don’t think he’s conveyed it very well. 而他的论点反映了一些相同的感受我,我不认为他转达了它非常好。 [...] [...]

  7. Chrome Cow » DD6: Martial Arts and Crafts wrote on 铬奶牛» DD6 :武术和工艺品上写道

    [...] A recent post on Raph Koster’s site , A bit on how I think games work, poses an interesting breakdown of game design into four layers; the mechanical, the statistical variation or content, the metaphor, and the narrative layer. [...]最近的一个哨所拉夫乌韦科斯特的网站,一点就如何我想游戏的工作,构成一个有趣的细目游戏设计分为四个层次;力学,统计更改或内容,隐喻和叙事阶层。 [...] [...]

  8. The Rodeo wrote on 在竞技上写道

    Tell me more about this cheddar-powered radioactive behemoth. 告诉我更多关于这个切达供电放射性庞然大物。 HELLO ME NOT DEAD Heh! 你好我没有死Heh ! Pastoral marriage counseling: What if? 田园婚姻辅导:如果? What if Christian married people were actually expected to know, remember, and honor their wedding vows?Interesting game idea Using Texas Hold-Em as a fight mechanic in an online game. 如果基督教已婚人士预计,实际上知道,请记住,并履行自己的结婚誓词?有趣的游戏的想法用的Texas Hold电磁作为打击技工在线游戏。 Women?s Health and Human Life Protection Act Good news for unborn babies! 妇女?健康和人类生活保护法好消息,未出生的婴儿! You are now considered valuable by the government of South Dakota. 您现在已被视为宝贵的政府南达科他州。

  9. Game Conversations :: View topic - Resources and Reading Material wrote on 游戏对话: :查看主题-资源和阅读材料上写道0

    [...] Eric Zimmerman, Katie Salen (Rules of Play, Game Design Reader) http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/03/05/a-bit-on-how-i-think-games-work/ http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/41/9 http://www.alanemrich.com/SGI/Week_03/SGI_Week03.htm [...] [...]埃里克齐默尔曼,凯蒂萨伦(游戏规则,游戏设计阅读器) http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/03/05/a-bit-on-how-i-think-games-work / http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/41/9 http://www.alanemrich.com/SGI/Week_03/SGI_Week03.htm [...]

  10. Game Conversations » Blog Archive » Game Conversation 3 - Narrative wrote on 博弈的谈话» blog存档»游戏会话3 -叙事上写道二

    [...] Koster argues that there are four stratifications in a game: mechanics, statistical variation, metaphor, and narrative. [...]科斯特说,有4层的比赛中:力学,统计的变化,隐喻和说明。 In Galatea, it is easy to see the [...] 在加拉蒂亚,很容易地看到, [...]

  11. Raph's Website » Game grammar in action: AOC’s DPS bug wrote on 拉夫乌韦的网站»游戏语法行动:冠捷的错误的DPS上写道

    [...] a game grammar point of view, this is a clear example of getting the wrong end of the stick. [...]游戏语法的角度来看,这是一个明显的例子让错误的结束棒。 Recall the distinctions between the “salad” and the “dressing” of a game — the [...] 记得之间的区别“色拉”和“修整”的游戏-在[ ...]

Reader Comments 读者评论
  1. Craig said on 克雷格说: 月5日

    I agree with the post, but it should be pointed out that one of the most important purposes of any given layer is to provide “angles of approach” on the other layers.我同意后,但应该指出的是,一个最重要的目的,任何特定的层是向“角度办法”的其他层。 Your mechanic is explored by the variations, which are created by the theme, which is created by the narrative.您的机械是探讨的变化,这是创建的主题,这是创造的说明。 Similarly, your narrative and variations are limited by your gameplay, your theme is limited by your variations and narrative…同样,您的叙述和变化而受到限制您的游戏,您的主题是有限的变化和叙事...

    All the layers establish the “width” of the other layers.所有的层建立“宽”的其他层。 Using the exact same gameplay, you get dramatically different variations by changing your theme.使用完全相同的游戏,你就会得到显着不同的版本更改您的主题。

    This is why people complained about your “healing game” that kept the game dynamics the same: changing the theme means that there’sa difference in the variations which are available.这就是为什么人抱怨您的“愈合游戏”的游戏保持同样的动力:变化的主题意味着,有差异的变化是可用。 Many people recognized this instantly.许多人认识到这一点上。 Changing the narrative - such as a game about curing Africa of AIDS - radically changes both the theme and the variations… even if the gameplay is the same .更改说明-如游戏的固化非洲的艾滋病-从根本上改变了主题和变化.. .即使游戏是相同的。

    I hope I’m being clear.我希望我是清楚的。 All I’m really trying to say is: “All these layers are separate, but each guides the others.”所有我真的想说的是: “所有这些层是分开的,但每个导游的人。 ”

  2. Kim Pallister said on 金帕里斯特说,

    A profound post.一个深刻职务。 And I’m not one to normally shower praise!我不是一个正常的淋浴赞美! I found equating the layers to the different disciplines to be particularly eye-opening.我发现等同层次的不同学科特别开眼界。

    One thought to add: Craig’s comment speaks of “angles of approach” from one layer to another.一想到加入:克雷格的评论说的是“角办法”从1层到另一个。 That might be one way to think of it.这也许是一个办法想它。 Another way to think of it is that the different layers may act as filters - limiting the perspective on, or choices in, another layer.另一种方法,认为它是,不同层次可作为过滤器-限制的角度,或选择,又一层。 In some cases that might be an actual limitation (eg game mechanic or ‘balance’ decision limits what a user can do) or a perceived limitation (because of the narrative’s basis in reality, preconceived notions exist about what’s possible and what’s not - “Why didn’t you just drive the car up the side of the building?” - “Cars can’t drive up buildings!”)在某些情况下,这可能是一种实际的限制(如游戏技工或'平衡'决定限制用户什么可以做) ,或知觉的限制(因为叙事的现实基础,先入为主的观念存在什么可能什么不是-“你为什么不只是驾驶赛车的一侧的建设? ” - “车不能提高建筑物!” )

    Maybe Craig and I are saying the same thing, but I’m not so sure.也许克雷格和我说了同样的事情,但我不这么认为。 Filtering is one layer limiting choices in, or views of, another.过滤层是一个选择的限制,或意见,另一个。 “Angles of approach” maybe be more about the presentation of a layer to the player in a certain way. “角的做法”也许是更多的介绍了一层的球员以某种方式。

  3. Craig said on 克雷格说: 月5日

    Kim: I think we’re talking about the same thing.金:我认为,我们在谈论同样的事情。 A filter doesn’t just block: it also highlights.过滤器并不仅仅块:它也突出。 Nice clarification, thanks.尼斯澄清,谢谢。

  4. Abalieno said on Abalieno说,

    Hmm..嗯.. Hmm..嗯..

    I’ll have to think more later about this.我要多想想以后这件事。 I read it as if those four steps work in a hierarchy, where you are free to choose one and put it at the top, dominating the others.我读到它如果上述四个步骤的工作等级,在那里你可以自由选择并把它的顶端,占据了其他人。

    I’m not convinced by the last two because you bring the example of your “healing game” for the metaphoric level which instead I consider JUST mechanical.我不相信在过去两年,因为你把你的榜样“愈合游戏”的隐喻的水平而不是我认为只是机械。 And I also think the narrative level blends with it.我也想说明共混物水平与它。 I find hard to separate the two.我觉得很难分开。

    The point is that I see those levels much more dependent one from the other.这一点,是因为我看到那些水平更加依赖从其他。 Your “healing game” instead was a metaphor completely independent from the mechanical layer.您的“愈合游戏” ,而不是一个比喻完全独立于机械层。 So, that example started from the metaphor or from the mechanic?所以,这例子是从隐喻或从技工?

    I see the whole discussion like this: if it started as a pure mechanic it would hardly translate in that type of metaphor.我看到了整个讨论这样的:如果它开始作为一个纯粹的机械,将很难翻译在这种类型的比喻。 I mean, If I have that mechanic I’m probably going to present it in a different flavor when I go to choose which metaphor is more appropriate.我的意思是,如果我说我机械师可能会目前它在不同的味道时,我去选择哪一个比喻更合适。 If instead it started from the metaphor, well, again I would design the mechanic to be MUCH different and more appropriate to the metaphor.反之,如果它开始的比喻,那么,我再次将机械设计有很大的区别和更合适的比喻。 To achieve better the communication of that metaphor.为了达到更好的沟通的比喻。

    Which also means: despite I recognize the hierarchy, sometimes the result is the same whether you start from the end or the beginning (as things are connected).这也意味着:尽管我承认等级,有时结果是一样的你是否开始或结束的开始(作为连接东西) 。

    So, from my point of view, you can take it either way and that example is still something that doesn’t make sense.所以,从我的角度看,您可以采取的方式,要么和例子仍然是一些没有道理的。

    - Were I to do a game “about healing” I would be starting with the metaphor. -如果我做游戏“的愈合”我将开始与隐喻。

    If this is true, it means that the mechanical level would STRONGLY depend on the metaphor.如果这是事实,这意味着机械水平将很大程度上取决于这个比喻。 Again following the model as a hierarchy where you decide to start from the metaphor and, from there, figure out the other parts.同样的模式作为一个阶层在您决定从隐喻,并从那里,找出其他地区。 Tabula rasa.白板。 You start from a blank paper, set a point wherever you want, and then start to draw the first lines.您从一个空白文件,设置指向哪里你想,然后启动提请第一线。 The rest will be progressively derived accordingly to what is on top of the hierarchy.其余的将逐步产生相应的是顶部的层次。 So everything is connected.所以一切都是相关的。

    If you see them as hierarchies, I agree that those level exist and they are always ALL present in every game.如果你看到他们的等级,我同意那些水平存在和他们总是所有在场的每一场比赛。 I also agree that you can freely reorder the hierarchy as you want.我也同意,您可以自由地重新排列等级为你想要的。 We have concrete examples for every possibility.我们有具体的例子,每可能性。

    That said, I believe there’sa “bias” and we are definitely, unavoidably going in a precise direction that is the one of the metaphor (the one I’d say should be higher on the hierarchy).尽管如此,我相信有“偏见” ,我们肯定,不可避免地会在一个精确的方向,是一个比喻(一个我想说应该更高的层次) 。 Even the cinema started with the technical experiments to then move to bring up the emotions.即使是电影开始的技术实验,然后将带来的喜怒哀乐。 I see a definite progression where the mechanical level will be progressively overshadowed and enslaved by the other levels.我看到一个明确的进展的机械水平将逐步阴影和奴役的其他水平。 For example there are “narrative techniques” to obtain certain effects, but these techniques are bent to be functional to the narrative.例如有“叙事技巧” ,取得一定的效果,但这些技术执意要功能的说明。

    Games in general have always been more tightly connected to the mechanical level, also because they started from the *interaction*.运动会一般一直更紧密地连接到机械水平,还因为他们是从互动*. * But I think that, whether we like it or not, we are going toward the emotional, symbolic level where the mechanics will become progressively hidden.但是,我认为,不管我们喜欢还是不喜欢,我们要对感情,象征性的水平,机械师将逐步成为隐藏。 As with the use of computer graphic in a movie, the best case is the one where you don’t see it, where this technical level becomes completely functional to the narrative needs.由于使用计算机图形的电影,最好的情况就是在那里你看不到它,这种技术水平成为功能完全的说明需求。 As I wrote in the post you linked, we are made of symbols.正如我在写你的联系后,我们正在做的符号。

    Let me rephrase: games in general has always been more tightly connected to the mechanical levels, because there’sa definite predominance of programmers and because “game design” has always been considered superfluous.让我改一下:一般游戏一直更紧密地连接到机械的水平,因为有一定优势的程序员,因为“游戏设计”一直被认为是多余的。

    I believe that many if not the majority of the woes in this industry are imputable to people sitting on the wrong chairs.我相信很多如果不是大多数的困难,这个行业是归咎于人坐在椅子的错误。

    The more we’ll see genuine game designers and not programmers-recycled-designers (through the social treadmill called “promotion”), the more the games will start to shapeshift into something else.我们越是会看到真正的游戏设计师,而不是程序员,可回收设计(通过社会跑步所谓的“促进” ) ,在更多的比赛将开始shapeshift到别的东西。 And the technical constraints will loosen up.和技术方面的限制将放宽。

    When this will happen games will finally truly become a “medium”.当这个游戏会发生,最终真正成为一个“中等” 。 Hopefully shying away from becoming completely autoreferential as 99% of the garbage that arrives on TV and instead telling us something valuable about ourselves and the world outside.希望回避成为完全autoreferential为99 %的垃圾抵在电视上,而是告诉我们一些宝贵的自己和外面的世界。

    This breakdown is, perhaps, why game designers must be multidisciplinary. 这是崩溃,或许就是游戏设计者必须是多学科的。

    I continue to disagree on this point.我仍然不同意这一点。 Game designers “may” be multidisciplinary.游戏设计者“可能”是多学科的。 It’s surely useful and helpful.这是肯定有用和有益的。 But not “obligatory”.但是,并非“强制性” 。 That’s just blindness from my point of view.这就是盲目性我的观点。

    Knowledge can help but it isn’t everything, nor what is truly important.知识可以帮助,但不是一切,也不是什么真正重要的。 As you don’t need to go to a writing school if you want to become a writer.正如你不必去学校的书面如果你想成为一个作家。 I just refuse to codify this, there are many different approaches and the game designer with the most knowledge isn’t going to be the one univocally making the best games.我只是拒绝编纂这一点,有许多不同的方法和游戏设计师最知识是不会成为一个univocally决策最好的游戏。

    He’ll have an advantage, but I wouldn’t give that advantage a fundamental role.他将具有优势,但我不会放弃这一优势着根本性的作用。

  5. Kim Pallister said on 金帕里斯特说,

    abalieno wrote: “As you don’t need to go to a writing school if you want to become a writer.” abalieno写道: “正如你不必去学校的书面如果你想成为一个作家。 ”

    No, but you do need to know how to write.没有,但你需要知道如何写。 I don’t think Raph meant multi-disciplinary mean “a degree in each”.我不认为拉夫乌韦意味着多学科是指“在一定程度在每个” 。 Just “well versed”.只是“精通” 。

    Not to put words in Raph’s mouth, but perhaps he meant they’d have an advantage if they are multi-disciplinary?不把话拉夫乌韦的嘴,但也许他的意思,他们希望有一个好处,如果他们是多学科的? But then I’d argue that’s true for just about everything in life但是,我要说的却是真实的只是生活中的一切 :-)

  6. Raph said on 拉夫说,

    Yes, I meant that it’s an advantage to be multidisciplinary.是的,我的意思,它的一个优势是多学科的。 Sorry, didn’t mean to sound quite so absolutist!很抱歉,但这并不意味着健全那么绝对!

    Abalieno, when you say hierarchy, to me that means an order. Abalieno ,当你说层次,对我来说,意味着秩序。 I don’t see these as having an order, save perhaps for the one irreducible thing, which is the mechanics.我不认为这些是有秩序,节约也许是一个不可的事情,这是力学。 No mechanics, no game.没有机械,没有比赛。 This is where I usually use my analogy to dance; no dance moves, no dance.这是我通常用我的比喻舞蹈,没有舞蹈,没有舞蹈。 You can then have lots of other stuff (lighting, costuming, etc, all the stuff I listed in the book) but those things can all exist without there being a dance.然后,您就可以有很多其他的东西(灯光,服装等,所有的东西我列出的书) ,但这些东西都可以存在,有一个舞蹈。

    But everything else — I had not thought of it in terms of a hierarchy.但是,其他一切-我没有想到这方面的等级。 I suppose that systemic statistical variation cannot exist without there eing a system, and I suppose that a narrative cannot exist without there being a metaphor.我猜想系统性的统计变化不能存在不存在英一个系统,和我猜想的叙述就不能存在,没有一个比喻。 So at that point we’re back to the good ol’ ludological vs. narrativist split.因此,在这一点我们回来了良好醇' ludological与narrativist分裂。

    Broadly speaking, I suppose you’d say I come down on the ludological side, because I do grant a certain sort of primacy to mechanics.从广义上讲,我想你要说我来了就ludological一方,因为我给予一定的优先排序 ,以力学。 That’s why I tend to call everything else (which isn’t just narrative stuff) “the dressing” — it’s the stuff that orbits the nucleus, which is the game mechanics.这就是为什么我会呼吁一切(这不仅是叙事的东西) “梳妆” -这是东西轨道的核心,这是游戏的技工。

    But that doesn’t mean it’s unimportant.但是,这并不意味着它不重要。 Because the thing built is no longer just a game (which can exist with just mechanics and no metaphor, as Go does, for example) — it’s an experience .由于内置的事情不再仅仅是一个游戏(可以存在,只是没有力学与隐喻,不作为围棋,例如) -这是一个经验。 That’s why you can create a radically different experience by using the same nucleus.这就是为什么您可以创建一个完全不同的经验,使用相同的核心。

    Now, the point of the healing game exercise is to demonstrate that a given nucleus can use many different metaphors.现在,点的愈合游戏演习,以证明某一核可以使用许多不同的隐喻。 They may be more or less suited to it, but they can fit.他们可能会或多或少地适应它,但可以适合。 Consider the classic light cycles sort of game: it could be bricklayers madly working buiding walls, it could be snails leaving glistening trails, it could be ditchdiggers, it could even be something that is really a stretch, such as debaters competing in an argument.考虑到传统的轻周期排序的游戏:它可以疯狂工作砖建筑外墙,也可以留下闪闪发光的蜗牛步道,可以ditchdiggers ,它甚至可能成为东西确实是一个优势,如debaters竞争的论点。 The mechanics are unchanged.机械师不变。

    Now, our enjoyment of the game, and in fact the actual experience, may well be completely different.现在,我们享受的游戏,而事实上的实际经验,很可能是完全不同的 And what’s more, I’d vehemently agree with you when you say that some of those are bad metaphors for one reason or another.什么更重要的是,我强烈同意你当你说,有些是不好的比喻由于某种原因。 But the fact that they are not ideal doesn’t mean they cannot be applied.但事实上,他们并不理想并不意味着他们不能适用。 Many, many games have poor metaphors applied; consider that one of the things that really helped the mechanics of Amplitude was the change to the metaphor of a guitar — and thus Guitar Hero was born.许多游戏都适用于穷人的隐喻;考虑的事情之一就是真正帮助的机制是振幅变化的比喻吉他-从而吉他英雄诞生了。 By aligning the metaphor and the mechanic better, it even inspired new mechanics, and the two layers thus interacted with synergy, resulting in something new and bigger than the inspirations.通过调整隐喻和技工更好,甚至激发新的机制和两层从而相互作用的协同作用,导致一些新的和大于启示。

    I think we’re simply using language slightly differently when you say that the healing game is “purely mechanical.” What I mean is that I am taking those four layers, and choosing to change only the metaphor and therefore the narrative as well (since the narrative is dependent on the metaphor).我认为,我们现在只需使用略有不同的语言时,你说的愈合游戏是“纯粹的机械。 ”我的意思是,我这四个层次,并选择改变只是比喻,因此,叙事以及(自说明依赖于隐喻) 。 I am leaving the mechanics the same.我要离开的力学相同。 And what you mean is that since I am leaving the mechanics the same, it’s mechanical.和你的意思是,因为我离开的力学一样,它的机械。 : ) So I think that’s just terminology.所以,我认为这只是术语。

    I agree that the industry is moving towards emphasis on the metaphor, and has been.我同意,这个行业正朝着侧重于比喻,并已。 I disagree that this is necessarily inevitable.我不同意,这是必然不可避免的。 The more you depend on the metaphor, the less likely you are to change the mechanics — this is evident in the vast majority of titles developed today.你越是依赖于比喻,那么你可能改变力学-这是明显的,绝大多数发达国家的书籍今天。

    I also firmly believe that you cannot allow the mechanics to get overshadowed, because the area where innovation can truly occur is on the mechanics level.我也坚信,你不能让力学获得阴影,因为该地区的创新才能真正出现是在力学的水平。 There’s plenty of new stuff to be done with a broader selection of metaphors (that was my point in presenting the healing game, after all) but to my mind, there’s also tremendous value in innovating on mechanics for their own sake.有很多新的东西需要做更广泛选择的隐喻(这是我的观点提出愈合比赛,毕竟) ,但在我看来,也有巨大价值的创新力学为自己的利益。 Mechanics can suggest metaphors just as much as metaphors can suggest mechanics.力学可以建议隐喻一样的隐喻可以建议力学。

    I even argue that often, the underlying message that we want to convey may be one that mechanics convey, not the metaphor.我什至认为,通常,基本的信息,即我们要转达可能是一个力学传达,而不是比喻。 As an example, I’d offer up the Watersnake game I have referenced in a few talks and that was mentioned in Smartbomb .作为一个例子,我想提供了Watersnake游戏我引用在少数会谈中曾提到的Smartbomb That game is mechanically a simulation of blood sugar levels and diabetes, but the metaphor is very different.那场比赛是机械模拟血糖水平和糖尿病,但这个比喻是非常不同的。 Ironically, that makes it more likely to convey the information about blood sugar management, because people come to understand it systemically, rather than just the metaphor — and the netaphor and narrative of blood sugar management is really rather dull and scary to read about.具有讽刺意味的是,使其更容易传达资讯血糖的管理,因为人们认识到它全身,而不是仅仅的比喻-和n etaphor和叙事血糖的管理确实是相当枯燥和可怕来了解。

    In the end, I believe the medium of games to be at its core more about the mechanics than about the metaphor, precisely because metaphor without mechanics has other names altogether: movies, music, etc. Mechanics metaphor is what this medium is.最后,我认为中期的游戏是其核心更多的技工比的比喻,恰恰是因为没有力学比喻有其他的名字完全:电影,音乐等 力学比喻是这个媒介。

  7. Raph said on 拉夫说,
    Your mechanic is explored by the variations, which are created by the theme, which is created by the narrative.您的机械是探讨的变化,这是创建的主题,这是创造的说明。

    I don’t think this is correct.我不认为这是正确的。 The mechanic is indeed explored by the variations, but the variations are statistical in nature.该机械确实是探讨的变化,但变化的统计性质。 They are not created by the theme.他们不是创造的主题。 They are simply given names by the theme.他们仅仅是名字的主题。 Similarly, I don’t think the theme is necessarily created by the narrative; sometimes it’s the other way around.同样,我不认为这一主题一定是创造的叙事,有时它的其他方式。 I tend to think any of these can give birth to any other one of these.我倾向于认为,任何这些可以生出其他任何其中之一。

  8. Craig said on 克雷格说: 月5日

    Raph says: “the variations are statistical in nature.拉夫说: “在变化的统计性质。 They are not created by the theme.他们不是创造的主题。 They are simply given names by the theme.”他们仅仅是名字的主题。 “

    I say: let’s replace the theme/metaphor in Tetris with a new idea.我说:让我们更换主题/隐喻在俄罗斯方块一个新的想法。 In this game of Tetris, you’re connecting legos.在这个游戏的俄罗斯方块,你是连接legos 。

    Fundamentally, it’s the same game.从根本上说,这是同样的游戏。 But the fact that you’re using legos allows you to use other shapes outside of the normal five or six.但事实上,您所使用legos允许您使用其他形状以外的正常五个或六个。 You are “allowed” to use one-block blocks, or eight-block blocks, by the new theme: legos come in those sizes, so your blocks can, too.您的“允许”使用一个块块,或8块模块,由新的主题: legos今后在这些大小,所以您的砖可以了。 This changes the variations.这改变了变化。 This changes how people play the game.这改变人们如何玩游戏。 The game balance is also fundamentally changed by these new variations.游戏的平衡也是从根本上改变了这些新的变化。

    This is not an isolated example.这是不是一个孤立的例子。 In virtually all games, you gain or lose variations based on the theme you choose, and based on how the narrative guides the theme from moment to moment.在几乎所有的游戏,你获得或失去的变化为主题您选择,并根据说明如何引导主题时刻的时刻。

    Raph says: “Similarly, I don’t think the theme is necessarily created by the narrative; sometimes it’s the other way around.拉夫说: “同样,我不认为这一主题一定是创造的叙事,有时它的其他方式。 I tend to think any of these can give birth to any other one of these.”我倾向于认为,任何这些可以生出其他任何其中之一。 “

    I didn’t intend to imply anything else: they all reflect on each other.我本来没有打算意味着别的:他们都反映了对方。

    I like this post and the comments on it.我喜欢这个哨所和意见。 They’re thought-provoking.他们是发人深省的。

  9. Raph said on 拉夫说,

    It’s entirely possible to arrive at your Legos example without going through the step of “Legos.” In fact, many Tetris clones did.这是完全有可能到达您的Legos的例子而不必通过一步“ Legos 。 ”事实上,许多俄罗斯方块克隆了。 :对 They also made hex versions, triangle versions, and so on.他们还提出了十六进位版本,三角形的版本,等等。

    In the case of Tetris, who knows whether the limitation of four on the content blocks came about because of mechanics or because of theme… we’d have to ask Pajitnov.如俄罗斯方块,谁知道是否限制的四个区块的内容,因为是力学,或因为主题...我们不得不问Pajitnov 。

    However, I’d also point out that a Lego theme doesn’t necessarily mean you have to offer all those variations on blocks either.但是,我也指出,乐高主题并不一定意味着必须提供所有这些变化都块。 : )

  10. Craig said on 克雷格说: 月5日

    Of course.当然。 You can have a variation in variations without a theme.你可以有一个变化,变化的一个主题。 A theme simply guides and suggests, and puts it into bite-sized pieces for the players.主题只是指导和建议,并提出它变成一口大小件的球员。

    For example, players will probably find hex Tetris easier to chew if it’s clearly about bees.例如,球员可能会发现十六进制俄罗斯方块容易咀嚼如果它显然对蜜蜂。 The theme has a solid, exceedingly simple reflection in the gameplay.这个主题具有坚实的,非常简单地反映在游戏。 In this case, even the mechanics have been altered to suit the theme (or visa-versa).在这种情况下,即使是力学已经改变,以适应主题(或签证,反之亦然) 。 : )

  11. MikeRozak said on MikeRozak说,

    Random thought:随机认为:

    For what it’s worth, whenever I’ve thought about this issue, particularly the separation of “story” from game, my brain recalls what I learned about newspaper articles: Who?认为这是非常值得,每当我已经想过这个问题,尤其是分离的“故事”的游戏,我的脑子回忆我知道报纸上的文章:是谁? What?什么? When?什么时候? Where?在哪里? How?怎么会呢? Why?为什么?

    What - Is this the metaphor?什么-这是隐喻? Chris Crawfords claims that to design a game, you must be able to answer “What will the players do?” In WoW, players go out an kill monsters.克里斯Crawfords声称,设计一个游戏,你必须能够回答“什么的球员怎么办? ”在魔兽世界,球员走出去的杀人怪物。

    How - Is this the bare mechanics of the game?如何-这是裸力学的游戏? Players kill monsters by pressing buttons at the lowest level, and moving/controlling their character at a higher level.玩家杀死怪物按下按钮的最低水平,和移动/控制它们的性质在一个更高的水平。

    Why - This is what the “story” provides.为什么-这就是“故事”提供。 Bartle’s and Yee’s player models describe motiviations (why) that players enter the game with: “I am a killer: I want to get to level 60 in WoW because it allows me to beat up on other players.” Story defines motiviations provided by the game itself, “I want to finish Fable because that will let me rescue my (character’s) mother and sister, and take revenge on the bad guy who burned down my (character’s) village and ruined my (character’s) childhood.”巴特尔和议的球员模型描绘motiviations (为什么)的球员进入比赛: “我是一个杀手:我想60级在魔兽世界,因为它使我战胜了其他选手。 ”故事的定义motiviations提供了游戏本身, “我要完成的寓言,因为这将让我拯救我的(性质)的母亲和妹妹,并采取报复坏人谁烧毁我的(性质)的村和毁了我(性质的)的童年。 “

    When and Where - Typical setting of the world, I assume.何时及何地-典型设置的世界,我承担。 Is this related to “content”?这是有关“内容” ?

    Who - Me?谁-我吗? Or my character?或我的性格? I’m not sure where this fits in.我不知道这种适合英寸

    Having said that, you claim that a game cannot exist without the core mechanics, “How” in my terminology.话虽如此,你说的比赛就不能存在的核心力学“ ,如何”在我的术语。 I’d claim that “Why” is also necessary since people won’t play the game without a “Why”.我想声称, “为什么”也是必要的,因为人民不会玩游戏没有“为什么” 。 Even if chess doesn’t have a story (game-given “Why”), chess games aren’t started without an external “why”, such as “I want to beat my opponent” or “I want be be world chess champion” or “I want to kill some time”.即使象棋没有一个故事(游戏赋予的“为什么” ) ,国际象棋比赛尚未开始无需外部“为什么” ,如“我想打败我的对手”或“我想将是国际象棋世界冠军“或”我希望杀死一些时间。 “

    You claim that “How” (mechanics) is required.你声称, “如何” (力学)是必要的。 Chris Crawford claims that “What” (metaphor) is required (as far as I understand his writing).克里斯克劳福德说, “什么” (比喻)需要(据我了解他的写作) 。 As a non-guru, I claim that “Why” (motiviation for playing) is required.作为一个非大师,我声称, “为什么” ( motiviation发挥)是必要的。 Maybe “when”, “where” and “who” are also required?也许“当” , “地方”和“谁”还需要?

  12. Michael Chui said on 迈克尔翠说,

    http://raccaldin36.livejournal.com/849808.html http://raccaldin36.livejournal.com/849808.html

    The way I interpret his writing is thus…就是我的解释他的写作,因此...

    You have a thing you’re trying to build.你有一个东西你试图建立。 It has four customizable parts.它有四个自定义的部分。 One of these parts, called “mechanics”, is absolutely necessary.其中的一个部分,所谓的“力学” ,是绝对必要的。 The other three may be included if you wish, but generally speaking, all three are included as if they were one.其他三个可列入如果您愿意,但一般而言,所有这三个被列为如果他们之一。

    Multidisciplinary is such an objectionable term.多学科就是这样一个令人反感的。 I don’t consider myself multidisciplinary; I merely study as much stuff as I can, admittedly with a strong bias towards a number of accepted fields of study.我不认为自己的多学科;我只是研究多的东西,我可以承认具有强烈偏向了一些公认的研究领域。 When you say you don’t need to go to writing school to become a writer, there arises the question of whether or not you can deliver a factually correct story about quantum physics, having never heard of it.当你说你不需要去写学校成为一个作家,有出现的问题,无论您是否能提供正确的事实讲述量子物理学,从未听说过。 The answer is, obviously, no.答案是,很显然,没有。

    Programming, I was taught, is much the same way.编程,我被教导,要以同样的方式。 You can’t program a piece of software monitoring a patient’s heart condition if you don’t understand the electrical pulses and all that jazz; or so the textbook told me.你不能计划的一块软件监测病人的心脏状况如果你不懂电脉冲和所有的爵士乐;或教科书告诉我的。 =) = )

    So it is, I’d argue, with game design.所以,我会认为,与游戏设计。 The core of game design is mechanical manipulation, that single module.核心的游戏设计是机械操纵,即单一的模块。 It’s making stuff up like chess or poker or football.这是决策的东西像国际象棋或扑克牌或足球。 These are each totally mechanical games; the universe in each is strictly defined, even if each cover separate domains.这些都完全机械游戏;宇宙中的每一个严格界定,即使每一个单独的覆盖领域。

    But say you take chess and you name the pieces King, Queen, Pawn, Knight, etc. Now you have content (or “statistical variation” as Raph calls it. *bleh*).但是,说你采取国际象棋,你的名字的作品国王,王后,典当,奈特等现在你有内容(或“统计变化”作为拉夫乌韦要求它。 * bleh * ) 。 You can produce the metaphor of kings being useless, but important, and the presentation that women are all-powerful.您可以产生隐喻的国王正在无用的,但重要的是,和介绍妇女都强大。 You can dictate a narrative, telling us that the armies of Light and Darkness have met upon a checkered battlefield to fight until a King is captured under the rules set down by Euclid, God of Squares.你可以支配的叙述,告诉我们,军队的光明与黑暗已经达到一个格仔战场战斗,直到国王是被俘的规则所规定欧几里德,上帝的平方。

    You could.你可以。 =P = P

    What’s most interesting to me is that Raph is saying that you can begin with any one of these pieces and build a game from there. I agree with this.

    A friend of mine is writing an RPG. He has plans for two sequels. He knows the entire storyline. The narrative is done. Sometime within the next month, he’ll produce a formal draft of what the combat mechanics look like so we can criticize it. That’s narrative first.

    Raph has talked enough about “fun” translating to “lesson” that I’m not going to rehash it, suffice to say that you can begin with, “What do I want my game to teach?” I’ve been experimenting with this idea. That’s metaphor first.

    I have no decent example for content or narrative first, but I do have a more holistic example.

    Let’s imagine how Gygax or whoever it was came up with D&D. There are a lot of ways they could’ve, and it’sa complicated system, so I’ll just gloss over most of it. “Let’s make a game about groups of adventurers that go gallivanting across worlds, fighting monsters, saving the day, and being heroes.” (Narrative.) “Well, they’d have to have swords and magic spells and stuff.” (Content.) “Oh, how will they know what can do what? Well, we’ve got dice… they’re pretty random. And it’s unlikely you can roll a 20, so that’s our critical hit…” (Mechanics.) “And we know that small groups of people can cause big changes in the world, if they work together and do the right thing. And it’s unlikely you can roll a 20, so that’s our critical hit…” (Mechanics.) “And we know that small groups of people can cause big changes in the world, if they work together and do the right thing 。 Let’s write a supplement about building castles, running kingdoms, and such.” (Metaphor.)

    What people have generally done is taken D&D’s core mechanics and changed the content and narrative, resulting in some metaphor shifts, but not many. Assuming that MUDs are descended from D&D, they realized that the mechanics are easiest to implement, because they were easily computed. Statistical variation is simple, obviously, especially with rand() functions.

  13. Raph said on

    I don’t think that the chess pieces are statistical variation… I would have to ponder it, but to me the chess pieces are part of the system mechanics. They are essentially abilities.

    Statistical variation would be differing arrangements of those abilities. If the pieces had hit points, for example. Or a given chess problem, for another example.

    In RPGs it’s obvious, it’s the stats on the opponent. In games of tennis, it is the “stats” that differing opponents bring to the table.

    Hmm, I wonder if “content” isn’t just “the factors that differentiate one opponent from another” — where “opponents” can appear at the atomic level (in my grammar’s sense).

  14. Michael Chui said on

    I don’t think that the chess pieces are statistical variation…

    Ah, I was a bit worried someone would trip up on that.

    The terms “King” or “Queen” is statistical variation. You can replace it with “General” and “Champion” without a change in the mechanics of the game. Depictions would also be statistical variations, I think.

    The mechanics governing the placement and movement would remain unchanged.

  15. Raph said on

    Who? The player and the content (in the statistical sense).

    What? Manipulate the system into the prescribed outcome.

    When? Where? This is content (in the narrative sense); after all, it becomes a narrative as soon as there are multiple “whens.”

    How? This is gameplay. It could be the narrative too, but I think it’s the gameplay.

    Why? This is metaphor.

  16. Raph said on

    I don’t think the terms are statistical variation either. I think they are part of the narrative side of things. : ) They are the metaphorical names we give to bundles of abilities, so I would call them part of the narrative layer.

    Mechanics: a grid-based system of force projection with tokens that project force along multiple dimensions; a symmetric game wherein the objective is the removal of one particular token of the opponent’s.

    Statistics: different configurations of tokens.

    Metaphor: a battle in a feudal system.

    Narrative: kings, queens, pawns, etc.

  17. Michael Chui said on

    Hm… your “narrative” then describes far more than I thought it did, and “content” far less. I think what threw me was where you said “statistical variations” was “monsters”. It might be more accurate (or at least more clear) to describe it as “classes”?

  18. Ketzup said on

    It would seem the names and the look of the pieces [in Chess] would not fall under Statistical variation, but under the Metaphorical layer with a hint of Narration. Statistical variation in Chess however, sprouts from the number of tokens and their starting positions. Playing first or second also changes the player experience.

    There is a hierarchy here. The ranks relate to the final product, not to the development process. Each layer after the mechanical layer refines and adds meaning to the pervious layer(s).

    This is very much related to the Onion Metaphor that is on the second oldest page of Daniel Cook’s blog at http://www.lostgarden.com . It’sa good read much like the rest of his site!

  19. Abalieno said on

    Quick thoughts:

    “Let’s pretend”, the whole “Magical Mystery Tour” may be examples of games (loose definition) completely on the metaphoric level and without mechanics, nor variations.

    I’m not stating this, actually. Just speculating.

    So at that point we’re back to the good ol’ ludological vs. narrativist split.

    Sort of, instead of four possible starting points, your model would have two. But still working as a hierarchy. With either the mechanics or the metaphor at the top.

    I still see the two as connected. And my belief is that they will become more and more so as we refine the “game design” and move to have more “genuine” designers that aren’t just derived from other roles. When game design acquires legitimacy on its own. Its own independence instead of being just a patchwork of everything else.

    I’m starting to believe that your idea about the mechanical level being the one really indispensabe (which I tend to agree) is like the metalinguistic with the language. A game with just mechanics is a game that looks to itself and speaks of itself. Autoreferential.

    I see this happening, but I don’t see this as a good thing happening.

    Simply put: in the maturity of the genre I (hope) to see the two levels (metaphor and mechanics) being more and more tightly connected.

    They are unconnected and relatively independent now because the genre is still immature.

    Then I also believe that the innovation on the mechanical level passes through the metaphoric level. But again because I still don’t (want to) see them as revolving independently.

  20. Michael Chui said on

    Abalieno, you’re quickly becoming extremely interesting. =P Here, I kinda stole something from you, so feel free to steal it back or whatever. Public domain and fun-ness.
    http://raccaldin36.livejournal.com/850058.html

    The problem with conceiving of game design as its own separate field is that it’s dependent upon other fields of a far more atomic nature. Or rather, one: math. I’ve come to believe that math can describe damn near everything, so I guess it’sa bit of a moot point.

    To take the example of my friend the RPG designer again, I would point out he’s designing everything holistically. (I would’ve called