The SL cultural gap U SL kulturne jaz December 13th, 2006 (Visited 7150 times) Tags: 13. prosinca 2006 (Posjećeno 7150 puta) Tags:

Reading recent discussions here and on TerraNova with Prokofy and other SL users, as well as this post over at in The Grid prompts me to some thoughts on the “culture gap” between SL and the rest of the MMOsphere. Čitanje nedavne rasprave ovdje i na TerraNova s Prokofy SL i drugim korisnicima, kao i na ovaj post preko rešetke u tome da me neki misli na "kulturu gap" između SL, a ostatak od MMOsphere.

In the Grid suggests that U Grid sugerira da

It’s no secret, of course, that the Linden Lab staff gets irked when people refer to Second Life as a ‘game,’ and so do a lot of long-time residents; maybe what this chart is revealing, then, is that the rest of the MMO community is finally catching on to this, and deliberately placing them outside of the traditional gaming sphere of conversation. To je bez tajni, naravno, da je lipa lab osoblje dobiva irked kada ljudi odnose se na Second Life kao 'igru', a tako napraviti dosta dugo vremena stanovnika, što možda ovaj karta se otkriva, dakle, da je ostatak od MMO zajednica je konačno lov na to, i namjerno ih stavljanje izvan tradicionalnih igara oblasti razgovoru. This is not necessarily a bad thing, I think; most would agree, I believe, that Second Life is an utterly different experience than most of these online videogames, while the games themselves are mostly better/worse variations on each other. To nije nužno loše stvari, mislim, većina bi se slažu, ja vjerujem da Second Life je sasvim drukčiji doživljaj nego što je većina tih online videogames, dok su se igre uglavnom su bolje / lošije varijacije na svaki drugi. Perhaps ten years from now, we’ll see yet another web just as strong as complex as this gaming one, but with Second Life at its center and the subject of MMO as a communications platform being its unifying theme. Možda je deset godina od sada ćemo vidjeti još jedan web kao jaka kao kompleks ove igre kao jedan, ali sa Second Life na njen centar i predmet MMO kao komunikacijska platforma se svojim ujedinjuje teme. Or, hmm, maybe we’d actually see such a web now, if Second Life were to be placed in the middle of a new Google Touch Graph. Ili, hmm, možda smo mi zapravo vidjeli takav weba sada, ako Second Life je da se nalazi u sredini novi Google Dodir Graf. Anyone out there want to try it and send me a screenshot of the result? Svatko tamo žele probati i poslati mi screenshot od toga? I’ll definitely post it as an update if someone does. Ja ću ga definitivno post kao nadopunu, ako netko ne.

Which I don’t agree with. Koji Ne slažem se sa. I mean, even the premise that SL is “an utterly different experience” feels wrong to me, given that the currents of social and user-content-based worlds are far far more intertwined than that, historically and likely into the future. Mislim, čak i SL pretpostavku da je "jedan sasvim drukčiji doživljaj" osjeća krivo mi je, s obzirom da je struja socijalne i korisnika sadržaja zasnovanog na svijet daleko daleko više isprepletena od toga, vjerojatno u prošlosti i budućnosti. (Uh, hello, Cory Ondrejka used to make arcade games). (Uh, hello, Cory Ondrejka koriste kako bi arkadnih igara).

Click to get a blown-up version with blog names. Kliknite da biste dobili cvijetu-up verzija s bloga imena.

So I see it as an interesting take on what the graph means. Tako ja vidim kao zanimljiv primiti što znači graf. As someone who visits both worlds regularly, I can tell you that for all the disdain that many of the gamers have for SL, they still TALK about it all the time, with in fact as much discussion going towards SL as towards, say, Pirates of the Burning Sea, or D&D Online. Kao što netko tko posjeti oba svijeta redovito, mogu reći da je za sve prezirati da mnogi od gamere su za SL, oni i dalje razgovarati o tome svo vrijeme, uz činjenicu kako je u mnogo rasprava ide ka SL kao prema, recimo, Pirati od paljenja mora, ili D & D Online.

Whereas I think the opposite is not true. Dok mislim suprotno nije istina. As an example, CopyBot discussions happened aplenty on places in the center of the graph, and folks who run may of those central sites jumped in on the comments elsewhere: people from my site, TerraNova, Broken Toys, f13, Psychochild, Zen of Design, to name just a few, all participated. Kao primjer, CopyBot rasprave dogodilo aplenty na mjestima u centru grafikona, i ljudi koji su pokrenuti svibanj onih centar u web-mjesta skočio na komentare drugdje: ljudi iz moje stranice, TerraNova, Broken Igračke, f13, Psychochild, zen Design , Na ime samo nekoliko, svi su sudjelovali. I rarely see something from the SL cluster point back. Ja rijetko vidjeti nešto od SL clustera točka nazad. Where’s the discussion on the ramifications of Eve Online happening within the SLogosphere, of the Leeroy Jenkins meme, of whether Entropia is a scam or a brave experiment? Gdje je rasprava o ramifications Eve Online događa unutar SLogosphere, od Leeroy Jenkins meme, Entropia da li je muljaža ili hrabar eksperiment?

If anything, this reinforces for me a certain insularity that exists; as a whole, the community of SL tends to see SL as highly exceptional, whereas those within the larger cluster don’t. Ako ništa, to ojačava za mene neki ostrva da postoji, kao cjelinu, zajednicu SL SL sklon vidjeti kao veoma iznimne, dok onih unutar većih nakupina ne. I think in general they see it as part of a tradition that includes AlphaWorld, OnLive Traveller, Cybertown, Habitat, LambdaMOO, and many others. Mislim da uopće ne vide ga kao dio neke tradicije koja uključuje AlphaWorld, OnLive Traveler, Cybertown, Habitat, LambdaMOO, i mnogi drugi. This (and the emphasis on “non-game” and “evil tekkies” and whatnot) has resulted in strange cultural gaps. Ovo (i naglasak na "ne igra" i "zlo tekkies" i sitnica) rezultiralo je čudno kulturne praznine. I worry a bit that the fact that SL as a community largely talks to itself and (yes) the Web 2.0 techie crowd is causing it to become a bit more insular that it ought to be. Ja brinite malo da činjenica da SL kao zajednica u velikoj mjeri razgovoru za sebe i (da) Web 2.0 techie gužve uzrokuje to da postanu malo uskogrudan da treba biti.

There is no doubt that the gaming world, as you point out, could benefit hugely by embracing more of the SL way of doing things as regards UCC; however, the PRIMARY lessons that SL seems to fail to absorb are ones that severely stunt its acceptance: instant enjoyability, guiding users, rewarding experiences on a regular basis, obvious interfaces, a premium on seamlessness (no lag, no disruptions, etc). Nema sumnje da je svijet igara, kao što naglasiti, moglo bi korist od grdno embracing više od SL način obavljanja stvari što se tiče UCC, međutim, primarni SL sati da izgleda kao da ne apsorbiraju su one koje teško štos prihvaćanju : Trenutnih enjoyability, usmjerava korisnike, rewarding iskustva na redovnoj osnovi, očite sučelja, premium na seamlessness (bez kašnjenja, bez raskidi, itd.). if I had to pick which side would benefit more from a cultural exchange, there is zero doubt in my mind that it’s the SL side. ako sam morao pokupiti što više strana imat će korist od kulturnih razmjena, tu je nula sumnje u moje srce da ga je SL strani.

Over on Second Thoughts, Prokofy’s post about Why the Geeks Got To Go throws this culture gap into sharp relief. Više o Top Drugo, Prokofy post o tome zašto je Geeks moram Idi baca taj jaz kulture u oštrom reljef.

In the discussion of the blogosphere graph , I pointed out neighborhoods that are webbed together but nonetheless clearly visible. U izlaganju blogosphere graf, sam naglasio da su susjedstvu spojen plovnom kožicom zajedno, ali ipak jasno vidljiv. You can trace a path easily from pure gamer sites through devs to game studies folks or serious games people; had I left in the mainstream gaming world (consoles and so on) almost any MMO blog would be two hops away from sites ranging from political activism to digital art to general technology news. Možete ući u trag put jednostavno iz čista Gamer stranice putem devs za igru studija ukućani ili utakmice ozbiljnih ljudi, imao sam ostao u mainstream svijetu igara (konzola i tako dalje) za gotovo bilo koji MMO blogu će biti dvije trgovine udaljeni od web-mjesta u rasponu od političkog aktivizma da si za opće digitalne tehnologije za novinare. The central web is far from a monolithic community — it’s tightly webbed, but it is very diverse, even in this highly reduced graph. Centralni web je daleko od monolitni zajednice - to je čvrsto spojen plovnom kožicom, ali je vrlo raznolika, pa se u ovom iznimno smanjeni graf. It also has a ton of institutional knowledge and history. Također ima tona institucionalnih znanje i istoriji.

When I look at SL itself, what jumps into stark relief lately is this whole “techie versus users” thing, this sense that there is an inherent culture clash within the system itself between the techies who made SL and the people who are creationing business, emotional connections and so on within SL. Kad sam pogled na SL sebe, što skokovi u pravi reljefom u posljednje vrijeme je da je cijela ova "techie u odnosu na korisnike" stvar, taj osjećaj da je svojstvena kulturi sukob unutar samog sustava između techies koji je SL i ljudi koji su creationing poslovanja, emocionalne veze i tako dalje u SL. Make no mistake, SL is far far more on the techie side of life than the entire central clump in the MMO blogosphere graph. Ne grešku, SL je daleko daleko više na techie strana života nego cijeli centar gruda u MMO blogosphere graf. It is born out of techie ideals, it derives its press from techie sources, and its early adopters are far more geeky techie than the average MMO game player. Ona je rođena iz techie ideala, to dolazi iz njegove pritisnite techie izvori i njegovih ranih adopters su daleko više geeky techie nego prosječan MMO igru igrača.

Now, their users now aren’t, it’s been pointed out to me several times. Sada, njihovi korisnici su sada nije, to je ukazao mi se nekoliko puta. This means, to me, that the culture gap between the game MMO sphere and the SL citizens is really not as big as it seems. To znači, da mi, da se jaz između kultura igra MMO sferu i SL građani se zaista ne izgleda kao velika.

Hell, the gap between the MMO devs and the SL devs is probably bigger . Hell, jaz između MMO devs i SL devs je vjerojatno veća. Why? Zašto? Because the games are not made to fulfill some lofty technical ideal or some cyberlaw-based philosophy or grand technolibertarian governmental ideals. Zbog igara nisu napravili da bi ispunili neke uzvišen tehničke idealna ili neke cyberlaw temeljene na filozofiji ili velika technolibertarian vladanja ideala. They are made for mass market entertainment, and as such, they tend not to bother playing around in what they regard as useless intellectual masturbation. Oni su napravljeni za masovno tržište zabave, i kao takve, one imaju tendenciju da se ne zamarati oko svira u smislu kao što su beskorisnih intelektualnog masturbacija. They’ll be happy to watch SL, like many other ventures into user content creation, get arrows in the back, and then adopt the smallest, most constrained set of features from it in the slickest and most mass market way possible. Oni će biti sretni da gledaju SL, poput mnogih drugih ulaganja u stvaranje korisničkog sadržaja, dobili strijele u leđima, a zatim usvojiti najmanji, najveći ograničen skup značajki iz nje u slickest, a većina mase tržištu mogući način.

Consider this quote from Prokofy’s post: Razmotrimo ovaj citat iz Prokofy post:

for young people, or newly-enabled and tekkified old people, especially women and non-Americans who have taken to SL by leaps and bounds, these old fuddy-duddy concerns like “skepticism triggered by the historical failure of things like LambdaMOO or VRML” don’t compute. za mlade ljude, ili novo-omogućen i tekkified stari ljudi, pogotovo žena i ne-Amerikanaca koji su poduzeti kako bi se skokovi i SL po autu, ove stare džandrljiva osoba zabrinutost kao "skepticizam pokreću po povijesni kvar stvari poput LambdaMOO ili VRML" ne računati. What the hell is LambadaMOO? Što je, dovraga, LambadaMOO? I never heard of it until I branched out from SL into geek-world; I’m certain I wouldn’t recognize VRML if it bit me in the ass; but I have a full and engaging Second Life. Ja nikad čuo za to dok sam račvast iz SL-monstrum u svijetu, a ja sam određene ja ne bi prepoznali VRML ako mi bitni u magarca, ali imam punu i privlačnim Second Life.

Taken in isolation, this reads like someone who has stars in their eyes so big they cannot see around them. Preuzeto u izolaciji, kao što je ovo pročita netko tko ima zvijezde u njihovim očima tako velikom da ne može vidjeti oko njih. Now, I know that in aggregate, Prokofy’s opinions are more nuanced and sophisticated than that. Sada znam da u agregat, Prokofy mišljenja su više nijansiranim i sofisticiran od toga. But I do wonder if the lack of connections to the rest of the ongoing discussion is a big part of the problem. Ali ja to čudo, ako je nedostatak veze s ostatkom aktivnog rasprava je veliki dio problema. Because the game folks have zero trouble or cultural issues referencing anything from MUD1 to PLATO, Medievia to TinyTIM, The Realm to Blaxxun. Budući da je igra ljudi imaju problema s nula ili kulturna pitanja upućuje na ništa od MUD1 da Platon, Medievia da TinyTIM, The Realm da Blaxxun. Plenty of people had full and engaging virtual lives in Cybertown or WorldsAway or even The Palace — if not on a commercial level, at the least on an emotional level. Puno ljudi su puni i privlačnim virtualni živi u Cybertown ili WorldsAway ili čak The Palace - ako ne na komercijalnoj razini, u najmanju ruku na emocionalni nivo. And much of the point that Prokofy is trying to make about virtual property rests on the emotional value, not the economic value. A koliko je stvar da je Prokofy pokušava učiniti o virtualnom imovine počiva na emocionalnu vrijednost, a ne ekonomske vrijednosti.

Prokofy points out that Prokofy ukazuje da

The geeks of Web. U geeks web. 1.0 once shook their heads that their bosses and leaders didn’t use email; today we who use email, too, shake our heads that they don’t get the value of a 3-D life online. 1,0 jednom otrese glave da je njihov gazda i lideri nisu koristili e-mail; danas mi koji koriste e-mail, previše, naš tresti glavu da ne dobijete vrijednost od 3-D on-line životu. But fortunately, increasingly, we’ll be making do without them and their purchasing decisions and their gate-keeping and barrier functions. Ali, srećom, sve ćemo se odluka učiniti bez njih i njihove kupovne odluke i njihova vrata-čuvanje i zapreka funkcije. Thank God, there are no more webmasters; everybody can be a webmaster. Hvala Bogu, nema više webmastere, svatko moze biti webmaster.

But that’s not how it’s actually happened. Ali to nije kako se to zapravo dogodilo. Email was adopted , but remained in continuous use, and folks who helped define its initial protocols are still active contributors to tech today. E-mail usvojen, ali je ostao u neprekidnu upotrebu, i ljudi koji su pomogli definirati prvobitnog zapisnika su i dalje aktivni doprinose tehnologije danas. I think we can expect history to keep being an ongoing tapestry, honestly, and that means that the geeks won’t be superseded because they are being built on . Mislim da možemo očekivati povijesti kako bi se jedan aktivni tapiserija, iskreno, a to znači da je geeks neće biti zamijenjene, jer su se graditi na. Regarding SL or anything else as exceptional in this absolutist manner means not examining the foundations on which you are building. Što se tiče SL ili bilo što drugo kao izuzetan u ovom absolutist način ne znači ispitivanje temelje na kojima su zgrade. (And I can tell you for a fact that the SL management and development team certainly knows their virtual world history). (A ja mogu reći za činjenicu da je SL upravljanje i razvoj tima zasigurno zna njihov virtualni svijet povijest).

At the recent Project Horseshoe , the working group on online ended up asserting that U novije Projekt Potkovica, radne grupe na online zavrsilo Izjašnjavanje da

Generally, our problems all fall into the very broad category of Institutionalized Hubris and Ignorance. Općenito, naše probleme sve pada u vrlo široka kategorija Institucionalna oholost i neznanje. We do not share knowledge, and we are not very open to knowledge that others try to share. Ne dijelimo znanje, a mi nismo vrlo otvoren do znanja drugima da pokušaju podijeliti. Culturally, we all need to open ourselves up to actually learning from the mistakes of others. Kulturalno, svi mi imamo potrebu za otvaranje sebe do zapravo učenje iz pogrešaka drugih. Practically, however, we need to begin by solidifying, clarifying and then sharing our hard-learned lessons. Prakticno, međutim, moramo početi od solidifying, razjašnjenja, a zatim dijeljenje naših teško naučene lekcije.

(Expect the working group’s report to be posted in the next day or so, by the way. I will link it here when it goes up). (Očekujte radne grupe izvješće biti objavljena u narednih dan ili tako, na putu. Ću link ovdje kada ga ide gore).

Most critically, this leads to people who ought to be pulling in the same direction instead pulling against each other. Većina kritički, to dovodi do ljudi koji treba da se povlačenjem u istom smjeru, umjesto vučna jedni protiv drugih. This shows up very specifically in the disdain we see flowing in both directions. Ovo pokazuje se vrlo konkretno u prezir vidimo da teče u oba smjera.

(In particular, though, it rankles me a bit to be lumped in as a techie elistist by Prok in this latest post. I don’t think of Clay Shirky as being particularly on the techie side either. Not all tech-savvy people are cut from the same cloth. In this essay Prok conflates several different points of view and lumps them all together under “tekkie.” Copyleft is a separate issue from atomicity, which is a separate issue from property, which is a separate issue from community, which is a separate issue from hype. And it is possible to have nuanced opinions about each of these issues individually.) (Konkretno, iako je rankles mi malo biti u lumped kao techie elistist po Prok u ovaj zadnji post. Ne mislim na Zemljani Shirky kao osobito na techie strana bilo. Nije sve tech-razumijevanje ljudi su izrezati iz iste krpom. U ovom clanku Prok conflates nekoliko različitih stajališta i lumps ih sve zajedno pod "tekkie." Copyleft je zasebna tema iz valentnost, što je zasebna tema od imovine, koja je zasebna tema iz zajednice, koji je odvojen od tema hype. I to je moguće imati nijansiranim mišljenja o svakom od ovih pitanja posebno.)

As I said in a comment on that post: Kao što sam rekao na komentar na tu funkciju:

Frankly, many of the comments sound… well, parochial. Iskreno, mnogo je komentara zvuk ... dobro, ograničen. They are so absolutely centered in just one way of doing things, when there is not yet One True Way for online worlds. Oni su tako apsolutno usmjeren samo na jedan način obavljanja stvari, kada se nije još jedan istinski način za online svjetovi. I don’t mean that as a slam; I’m just trying to point out that you seem to be implying that you & others “get it” while those who have been working hard in this field for years to decades and who are trying to point out some of the pitfalls “don’t get it.” Frankly, that’s silly and shortsighted. Ne znači da kao pobjeda, ja sam samo pokušava istaknuti da izgleda da se implying da ti i drugi "get it", dok oni koji su se radilo u tom području godinama i desetljećima koji se nastoji naglasiti neke od pitfalls "ne bi ga." iskreno, da je glup i kratkovidan. Everything you have said about emotional connection, frontiers, bringing in the common people — every word of it is something that I, and others have said already. Sve što ste rekli o emocionalne veze, granica, dovodeći u obični ljudi - svaka riječ je nešto što ja, i drugi su već rekao. We’re ON YOUR SIDE on this, but also have been around long enough to be able to point out some of the realities. Mi smo na vašoj strani na ovom, ali također su oko dovoljno dugo da biste mogli ukazati na neke od stvarnosti.

I hope you and those like you CAN walk around those pitfalls like they weren’t there. Nadam se da ste i onih poput možete prošetati oko onih pitfalls kao što su oni ne postoje. But I guarantee that five years from now, you’ll look back and say “damn — look at those huge pitfalls — we didn’t even notice, but it’sa good thing we walked left in the darkness right then.” A ja jamčiti da se pet godina od sada ćete gledati natrag i reći: "dovraga - pogled na one ogromne pitfalls - nismo ni primjetiti, ali it'sa dobra stvar mi šetao lijevo u tami pravo zatim."

It is entirely possible to agree with Prokofy that the emotional connection to an object or entity in a virtual world grants a certain type of reality to it whilst also saying that under the logic of code AND law, they have no ownership stake in it whatsoever. And it’s not, as Prokofy says, “backsliding.” It’s about complex issues that have multiple angles from which to view the same thing. To je moguće u potpunosti suglasni s Prokofy da emocionalne veze na objekt ili subjekt u virtualnom svijetu grantovi neki tip realnost da je dok rekao da se po logici kod i zakon, oni nemaju vlasništva zaslužni za to što. I to nije, kao Prokofy kaže, "backsliding." To je o složenim problemima koji imaju više kutova iz kojih se mogu vidjeti istu stvar.

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94 Responses to “The SL cultural gap” 94 Odgovori na "U SL kulturne jaz"

1. alecaustin: More notes on Second Life wrote on December 13th, 2006 at 6:09 pm : alecaustin: Više bilješke o Second Life je napisao na 13. prosinca 2006 u 6:09 am:

   [...] Alec Austin (alecaustin) wrote,@ 2006-12-13 14:55:00      Entry tags:c3, mmogs, second life More notes on Second Life Raph Koster’s got a lot to say about the culture gap between MMOGs and Second Life, and most of it sounds about right to me. [...] Alec Austin (alecaustin) napisao, @ 2006-12-13 14:55:00 Entry Tags: C3, mmogs, drugi život više bilješki o Second Life Raph Koster je dobio puno za reći o kulturi jaz između MMOGs i Second Life, i većina to zvuci pravo da o meni. The UI concerns that he brings up are probably going to be one of the centerpieces of my research production for next semester.(Post a new comment) [...] The UI bojazni da će se vjerojatno će biti jedan od mojih centerpieces istraživanja proizvodnim za sljedeći semestar. (Postavi komentar) [...]

2. SLOz - Australia’s Second Life News Source » Are SL users ethnocentric? wrote on December 14th, 2006 at 12:50 am : SLOz - Australia's Second Life Izvor vijesti »Jeste SL korisnici ethnocentric? Pisao na 14. prosinca 2006 u 12:50 pm:

   [...] A fascinating discussion on SL as one of many multiplayer experiences can be found at raphkoster.com - if you’re interested in sociology (and who wouldn’t be!) then have a read through. [...] Fascinantno raspravu o SL kao jedan od mnogo više iskustva mogu se naći na raphkoster.com - ako ste zainteresirani za sociologiju (a ko ne bi!) Onda su pročitali. The premise of the article is that SL residents could perhaps learn a lot of useful lessons from other MMOs. U prostor za rad koji je mozda moglo SL stanovnici naučiti puno korisnih lekcija iz drugih MMOs. [...] [...]

3. Zen of Design»Blog Archive » Another MMO Announcement Imminent wrote on December 15th, 2006 at 7:58 am : Zen Design »Blog Archive» Još jedan MMO Najava predstojeći pisao na 15. prosinca 2006 u 7:58 pm:

   [...] Buried in the comments on Yet Another Second Life Post on Raph’s blog, Raph says the following: I am glad you think of me as enlightened. [...] Pokopan u komentarima na još jedan Second Life's Raph post na blogu, Raph kaže sljedeće: Ja se radujem što mislite o meni kao prosvijetlio. We will be announcing our startup in the next couple of days, and when we do, believe it or not, I hope you’re among those who are interested. Mi ćemo biti za pokretanje naše objavom u narednih nekoliko dana, i kada radimo, vjerujem u to ili ne, nadam se da ste među onima koji su zainteresirani. [...] [...]

4. Sierra Kilo » From the Horse’s Mouth wrote on December 15th, 2006 at 1:03 pm : Sierra kilo »Od usta konja pisao na 15. prosinca 2006 u 1:03 am:

   [...] Raph Koster said (here and here) he will announce his new studio soon. [...] Raph Koster rekao (ovdje i ovdje) on će najaviti njegov novi studio uskoro. I’m not exactly sure where he’s living nowadays (California or Texas?), but this should be interesting to watch. Nisam baš siguran gdje je i danas žive (ili Kalifornija Texas?), Ali to bi trebao biti zanimljiv za gledati. I half expected him to get snatched up by one of the new studios (BioWare Austin, Green Monster Games, etc), but there’s something to be said for being your own boss I do expect to see games where you have to apply a little brainpower. I očekuje polovine ga dobiti snatched se jedan od novih studija (BioWare Austin, Zeleno čudovište igre, itd.), ali tu je nešto rekao da će se za vlastiti gazda ja to očekujem da vidim igre gdje morate primijeniti malo brainpower. No straight hack-and-slash from Raph. Ne ravno posjekotina i prorez od Raph. Maybe an MMOBFS (Massively Multiplayer Online Bird Flight Simulator)? Možda jedna MMOBFS (masivno Multiplayer Online ptičji let simulator)? [...] [...]

5. Second Life Herald: More Worlds! wrote on December 16th, 2006 at 4:36 pm : Second Life Herald: više svjetova! Pisao na 16. prosinca 2006 u 4:36 am:

   [...] Suddenly, all that time Raph has been labouring talking to gamers and Infamous Antagonists on his blog seems to make sense — if a new and different thing and better thing will come out of it. [...] Odjednom, sve to vrijeme Raph je radni govoriš gamere i sramotno antagonista na svom blogu izgleda kao da imaju smisla - ako nove i različite stvari i bolje što će izaći iz njega. An interesting discussion on whether games or worlds are better is going on here. Dogodila se zanimljiva rasprava o tome da li igre ili su svjetovi bolje se događa ovdje. [...] [...]

6. Друзья wrote on December 18th, 2006 at 2:53 pm : Друзья pisao na 18. prosinac 2006 u 2:53 am:

   [...] Previous 20 Вт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:41 yettergjart: Давно мы фигнёй не занимались Your Birthdate: July 31You don’t love lightly. [...] Prethodnih 20 Вт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:41 yettergjart: Давно мы фигнёй не занимались Vaša Datum rođenja: Srpanj 31You ne ljubav olako. For you, love is always a serious undertaking.However, you are able to love many types of people. Za tebe, ljubav je uvijek ozbiljna undertaking.However, vi ste u stanju ljubavi mnogih vrsta ljudi. You can bring out the best in almost anyone.Love surprises you often. Možete izvući najbolje u gotovo anyone.Love iznenađenja vas često. You never know when or where you’ll find it next.Number of True Loves You’ll Have: 2Number of Times You’ll Have Your Heart Broken: 1You are most compatible with people born on the 4th, 13th, 22nd, and 31st of the month.What Does Your Birth Date Mean For Your Love Life?via opposto Tags: фигня ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:37 iten: Мне бы в небо. Nikada ne znate kada i gdje ćete pronaći next.Number pravu voli imati ćete: 2Number puta ćete morati svoje srce Broken: 1You su većina kompatibilan s ljudima rođen je 4., 13., 22., i 31. od month.What Da li Vaš datum rođenja znači za tvoju ljubav, život? putem opposto Tags: фигня ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:37 iten: Мне бы в небо. После воскресного разговора мне запала в голову одна мысль, от которой я никак не могу освободиться. После воскресного разговора мне запала в голову одна мысль, от которой я никак не могу освободиться. Pigbig сказала о конкретном человеке, о том, что этот человек пытался «прыгнуть» в другой социальный класс, но не довёл дело до конца, не смог. Pigbig сказала о конкретном человеке, о том, что этот человек пытался «прыгнуть» в другой социальный класс, но не довёл дело до конца, не смог. Я слушал и думал о себе: о том, к какой страте я принадлежу, о том, был ли у меня такой прыжок. Я слушал и думал о себе: о том, к какой страте я принадлежу, о том, был ли у меня такой прыжок. О родителях я уже писал – у них было образование, но их жизнь совершенно не была связана с академической средой или чем-то подобным. О родителях я уже писал - у них было образование, но их жизнь совершенно не была связана с академической средой или чем-то подобным. Получается, что я, отучившись в университете и аспирантуре, связавшись с работой в университете, вроде как поднялся на социальном лифте немного повыше. Получается, что я, отучившись в университете и аспирантуре, связавшись с работой в университете, вроде как поднялся на социальном лифте немного повыше. Хотя это моё ощущение можно вполне оспорить: в нынешнем обществе столько разных систем иерархий, что мой путь наверх вполне может быть сведён к нулю, в силу невозможности сравнить позиции. Хотя это моё ощущение можно вполне оспорить: в нынешнем обществе столько разных систем иерархий, что мой путь наверх вполне может быть сведён к нулю, в силу невозможности сравнить позиции. Опять же, этот мой путь не был продуманным шагом: я получил образование, а потом устроился на работу в соответствии с квалификацией, не думая при этом о том, что так я приобретаю какой-то неведомый статус или избавляюсь от «проклятия» социального происхождения. Опять же, этот мой путь не был продуманным шагом: я получил образование, а потом устроился на работу в соответствии с квалификацией, не думая при этом о том, что так я приобретаю какой-то неведомый статус или избавляюсь от «проклятия» социального происхождения. Правда, мне иногда приятно было думать о том, что я поступил в университет, а некоторые из тех, с кем я учился в школе, не поступили и, в полном соответствии с законом социальной преемственности, отправились, допустим, на завод. Правда, мне иногда приятно было думать о том, что я поступил в университет, а некоторые из тех, с кем я учился в школе, не поступили и, в полном соответствии с законом социальной преемственности, отправились, допустим, на завод. Всё же я могу сказать, что мой статус стал немного выше, мои занятия более интеллектуальны, диапазон разговора шире. Всё же я могу сказать, что мой статус стал немного выше, мои занятия более интеллектуальны, диапазон разговора шире. Однако, вот что меня заботит: насколько я действительно вписан в ту среду, в которой я сейчас нахожусь, насколько я согласен примерить на себя какие-то достижительные маркеры, вроде «защиты диссертации», насколько я не плебей? Однако, вот что меня заботит: насколько я действительно вписан в ту среду, в которой я сейчас нахожусь, насколько я согласен примерить на себя какие-то достижительные маркеры, вроде «защиты диссертации», насколько я не плебей? Я ведь чувствую собственную планку, чувствую отсутствие того, что можно обозначить тривиальной метафорой английского газона, за которым ухаживали целую кучу лет: я вырос среди книг, но это скорее случайность, чем закономерность, и я не являюсь результатом тщательного воспитания в определённом духе. Я ведь чувствую собственную планку, чувствую отсутствие того, что можно обозначить тривиальной метафорой английского газона, за которым ухаживали целую кучу лет: я вырос среди книг, но это скорее случайность, чем закономерность, и я не являюсь результатом тщательного воспитания в определённом духе. Может, я тоже плохо и неудачно прыгнул? Может, я тоже плохо и неудачно прыгнул? Для меня это очень интересный вопрос: однажды, в компании, мы спорили до крика о том, может ли человек преодолеть ту социальную среду, в которой он вырос. Для меня это очень интересный вопрос: однажды, в компании, мы спорили до крика о том, может ли человек преодолеть ту социальную среду, в которой он вырос. Музыка: Дэвид Боуи Jump, they say ссылка Оставить комментарий | 1 комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:25 a_k_e_l_a: Тоскливое Иногда очень хочется свернуться калачиком у кого-нибудь на коленях. Музыка: Дэвид Боуи Skoči, kažu ссылка Оставить комментарий | 1 комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:25 a_k_e_l_a: Тоскливое Иногда очень хочется свернуться калачиком у кого-нибудь на коленях. Чтобы гладили по головке, перебирали спутанные волосы на затылке и нежно шептали на ушко, что меня любят и что все обязательно будет хорошо. Чтобы гладили по головке, перебирали спутанные волосы на затылке и нежно шептали на ушко, что меня любят и что все обязательно будет хорошо. И пообещали купить петушка на палочке. И пообещали купить петушка на палочке. Осталось найти такие невъебенные колени, на которых я бы поместилась.Нет в жизни совершенства.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:27 d_a_p: Aerae Интересный пост о SL и похожих разработках.Анализ интернетных сообществ с точки зрения разработчика.( Автор поста Raph Koster сам недавно открыл Start-Up Aerae)Особенно мне понравился вот этот граф расползания новостей по блогам Осталось найти такие невъебенные колени, на которых я бы поместилась.Нет в жизни совершенства.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:27 d_a_p: Aerae Интересный пост о SL и похожих разработках.Анализ интернетных сообществ с точки зрения разработчика . (Автор поста Raph Koster сам недавно открыл Start-up Aerae) Особенно мне понравился вот этот граф расползания новостей по блогам Tags: nosup, sl ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:21 yettergjart: Оправдание рутины Обменявшись с aletehia репликами о свободе и рутине (http://yettergjart.livejournal.com/156798.html?thread=1630334#t1630334 ), я подумала о том, что только недавно - на своём сорок втором году - начала как следует чувствовать огромный освобождающий потенциал так называемой «рутины»: повторяющегося, автоматического… Устойчивого и защищающего в мире вообще так мало, что по-настоящему перевести дух можно только внутри того, что делается и повторяется якобы “само собой”. Tags: nosup, SL ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:21 yettergjart: Оправдание рутины Обменявшись с aletehia репликами о свободе и рутине (http://yettergjart.livejournal.com/156798.html?thread=1630334 # t1630334) , Я подумала о том, что только недавно - на своём сорок втором году - начала как следует чувствовать огромный освобождающий потенциал так называемой «рутины»: повторяющегося, автоматического ... Устойчивого и защищающего в мире вообще так мало, что по-настоящему перевести дух можно только внутри того, что делается и повторяется якобы "само собой". И ДУМАЕТСЯ в этом - причём о самых общих и отвлечённых вещах - великолепно. И ДУМАЕТСЯ в этом - причём о самых общих и отвлечённых вещах - великолепно. «Рутина» прекрасно освобождает нас от всего, что не-она, - надевает на нас эдакий защитный футляр. «Рутина» прекрасно освобождает нас от всего, что не-она, - надевает на нас эдакий защитный футляр. Именно внутри такой защитной конструкции и разворачивается самое разнузданное внутреннее разнообразие!! Именно внутри такой защитной конструкции и разворачивается самое разнузданное внутреннее разнообразие! Честное слово.На самом деле удивительно, как с течением времени начинает восприниматься в качестве надёжного источника свободы то, что в начале жизни ничем, кроме окаянного закрепощения, не казалось. Честное слово.На самом деле удивительно, как с течением времени начинает восприниматься в качестве надёжного источника свободы то, что в начале жизни ничем, кроме окаянного закрепощения, не казалось. Рутина. Рутина. Работа. Работа. Жёсткое расписание. Жёсткое расписание. Сидение дома (в противоположность (а) странствиям, (б) хождением по гостям и вообще (в) разговорам. Тот же возраст. А сегодня у меня очень остро и ясно переживалась мысль об освобождающем потенциале – самом, наверно, большом и надёжном из освобождающих потенциалов – неизбежной смерти. Tags: выращивание свободы, из разговоров с френдами, оправдания ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:25 eigi: Пеку рождественские пирожные. Опять начался мой крестный глазурный путь.ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:19 jekfat: Новое слово Мой коллега - шеф-редактор детской программы - сегодня заметил, что у нас в стране с детьми работают либо педофилы, либо педофобы.Второй термин пришелся по вкусу многим, работающим с детьми на ТВ. Tags: ТВ, дети, работаCurrent Location: Москва, дом ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:26 another_kashin: Из переписки с читателями ссылка Оставить комментарий | 7 комментариевВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:20 francinemarine: Три слова ( Original Soundtrack Shrek ) Настроение: indifferent Музыка: Rufus Wainwright Hallelujah ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:13 alexclear: Макс, с днем рождения!ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:14 yettergjart: О незащищённости …чувствую я, человек вообще – новичок в мире, сколько бы ни прожил. Ох как прав поэтому мой френд nemo_ru, сказавший недавно (http://yettergjart.livejournal.com/155935.html?thread=1628959#t1628959 ), что в опыте есть что-то успокоительное. Есть, конечно: всякий опыт (глубоко и неизбежно случайный по самой своей природе) создаёт нам видимость опор, видимость надёжности – видимость очевидности. Tags: из разговоров с френдами, экзистенциальное ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 01:03 sali_revised: пока привезут макароны Первое место уже больше года таки удерживает комбинация циниковские чесночные гренки Массандра. За второе готов поспорить альянс щупалец осьминога с Джеком Дэниэлсом. Единственное, что обидно — как бы ни стремился к культурному росту, а все равно идти за активированным углем.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:53 im_foto: Ещё немного и слово “контакт” исчезнетбудет: индекс-принтв 70_ые Ральф Гибсон издал книгу “Контакты”, где на разворотах слева на вылет были контакты, а справа Фотографии, можно было следить за “мыслью” и почерком, почти сотни ФотографовЕсть контакты (или вернее негативы) с которыми не работалиа выбросить вроде жальСССР, Москва 1985(м.б. 1986) “Коррозия Металла”: Паук, Сакс, Боров и др.( Миша Молочников!) Tags: архив, рок ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:55 alexclear: В комментарияхЛОХИ И НИЩЕБРОДЫ.ссылку надыбал на топе blogs.yandex.ruссылка Оставить комментарий | 14 комментариевВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 00:19 a_k_e_l_a: О работе и государстве Во-первых, о работе. Нахамила шефу. И не терзають меня совести угрызения. Вот совсем и не терзають. Дело было так - в очередной раз заученным и заунывным тоном поинтересовалась у начальства, а как, собственно, обстоят дела с перерегистрацией любимой организации (ебись она конем!). Дела, разумеется, не обстояли никак, как, впрочем, и 1,5 года назад. И тут шеф выдает фразу на-гора:- А когда, собственно, ты сможешь подключиться к процессу полноценно, а не сидя дома?- ??????- Ну, когда ты сможешь выезжать? (Интересно, ребенка, подразумевается, я должна таскать с собой или куда его девать?)- А какой процесс ты имеешь в виду?- Ну… перерегистрацию.Стервенею. Все понятно - в очередной раз пытаемся спихнуть свои обязанности на меня.- Вообще-то, перерегистрация организации не входит в обязанности главного бухгалтера.- Не входит.- Впрочем, я готова хоть сейчас. Но - за дополнительную плату.В ответ - тишина и озадаченный шефов взор, полный бессильной ярости. И нехуй! ( Во-вторых, о государстве. ) Tags: Политика ссылка Оставить комментарий | 6 комментариевВт, 19 Дек, 2006, 03:46 samir74: Москали сегодня акцию провели на Мете - человек 15 новых голосов голоснуло, потоки ругани, все такое. Закидали мету антиукраинскими, антирумынскими и антисибирскими агитками.Эта ночь - черная луна, наибольшая активность сил зла. Так что неудивительно, что бесы в них именно сегодня так забегали, и их на очередное сатанинское дело потянуло.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 5 комментариевПн, 18 Дек, 2006, 15:46 piony: [...] Сидение дома (в противоположность (а) странствиям, (б) хождением по гостям и вообще (в) разговорам. Тот же возраст. А сегодня у меня очень остро и ясно переживалась мысль об освобождающем потенциале - самом, наверно, большом и надёжном из освобождающих потенциалов - неизбежной смерти. Tags: выращивание свободы, из разговоров с френдами, оправдания ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:25 eigi: Пеку рождественские пирожные. Опять начался мой крестный глазурный путь.ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:19 jekfat: Новое слово Мой коллега - шеф-редактор детской программы - сегодня заметил, что у нас в стране с детьми работают либо педофилы, либо педофобы.Второй термин пришелся по вкусу многим, работающим с детьми на ТВ. Tags: ТВ, дети, работаCurrent Lokacija: Москва, дом ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:26 another_kashin: Из переписки с читателями ссылка Оставить комментарий | 7 комментариевВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:20 francinemarine: Три слова (Original Soundtrack Shrek) Настроение: ravnodušnim Музыка: Rufus Wainwright Aleluja ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:13 alexclear: Макс, с днем рождения! Ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01:14 yettergjart: О незащищённости ... чувствую я , Человек вообще - новичок в мире, сколько бы ни прожил. Ох как прав поэтому мой френд nemo_ru, сказавший недавно (http://yettergjart.livejournal.com/155935.html?thread=1628959 # t1628959), что в опыте есть что -то успокоительное. Есть, конечно: всякий опыт (глубоко и неизбежно случайный по самой своей природе) создаёт нам видимость опор, видимость надёжности - видимость очевидности. Tags: из разговоров с френдами, экзистенциальное ссылка Оставить комментарийВт, Дек 19, 2006, 01: 03 sali_revised: пока привезут макароны Первое место уже больше года таки удерживает комбинация циниковские чесночные гренки Массандра. За второе готов поспорить альянс щупалец осьминога с Джеком Дэниэлсом. Единственное, что обидно - как бы ни стремился к культурному росту, а все равно идти за активированным углем.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:53 im_foto: Ещё немного и слово "контакт" исчезнетбудет: индекс-принтв 70_ые Ральф Гибсон издал книгу "Контакты", где на разворотах слева на вылет были контакты, а справа Фотографии, можно было следить за "мыслью" и почерком, почти сотни ФотографовЕсть контакты (или вернее негативы) с которыми не работалиа выбросить вроде жальСССР, Москва 1985 (м.б. 1986) "Коррозия Металла": Паук, Сакс, Боров и др. ( Миша Молочников!) Tags: архив, рок ссылка Оставить комментарий | 2 комментарияВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:55 alexclear: В комментарияхЛОХИ И НИЩЕБРОДЫ.ссылку надыбал на топе blogs.yandex.ruссылка Оставить комментарий | 14 комментариевВт, Дек 19, 2006, 00:19 a_k_e_l_a: О работе и государстве Во-первых, о работе. Нахамила шефу. И не терзають меня совести угрызения. Вот совсем и не терзають. Дело было так - в очередной раз заученным и заунывным тоном поинтересовалась у начальства, а как, собственно, обстоят дела с перерегистрацией любимой организации (ебись она конем!). Дела, разумеется, не обстояли никак, как, впрочем, и 1,5 года назад. И тут шеф выдает фразу на-гора: - А когда, собственно, ты сможешь подключиться к процессу полноценно, а не сидя дома? - ??????- Ну, когда ты сможешь выезжать? (Интересно, ребенка, подразумевается, я должна таскать с собой или куда его девать?) -- А какой процесс ты имеешь в виду? - Ну ... перерегистрацию.Стервенею. Все понятно - в очередной раз пытаемся спихнуть свои обязанности на меня .- Вообще-то, перерегистрация организации не входит в обязанности главного бухгалтера .- Не входит .- Впрочем, я готова хоть сейчас. Но - за дополнительную плату.В ответ - тишина и озадаченный шефов взор, полный бессильной ярости. И нехуй! (Во-вторых, о государстве.) Tags: Политика ссылка Оставить комментарий | 6 комментариевВт, Дек 19, 2006, 03:46 samir74: Москали сегодня акцию провели на Мете - человек 15 новых голосов голоснуло, потоки ругани, все такое. Закидали мету антиукраинскими, антирумынскими и антисибирскими агитками.Эта ночь - черная луна, наибольшая активность сил зла. Так что неудивительно, что бесы в них именно сегодня так забегали, и их на очередное сатанинское дело потянуло.ссылка Оставить комментарий | 5 комментариевПн, Дек 18, 2006, 15:46 piony: [...]

7. egmg: интересно, wrote on December 18th, 2006 at 3:12 pm : egmg: интересно, napisao je na 18. prosinac 2006 u 3:12 am:

   [...] умные тексты. [...] Умные тексты. Ударение на слове длинные :)(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) egmg 2006-12-18 10:38 pm UTC (link) 2ое и 3ье не существенно, носложнее. Ударение на слове длинные:) (Odgovor na ovo) (Parent) (Temu) egmg 2006-12-18 10:38 am UTC (link) 2ое и 3ье не существенно, носложнее. Я не слышала про не-резидентов.(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) d_a_p 2006-12-18 10:46 pm UTC (link) Да, с Магистерской быстро неесть Латвийское гр-во тоже, это что то меняет ?(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) egmg 2006-12-18 10:51 pm UTC (link) ну просто на магистрантов,вариант. Ну или искать где-то самому грант.(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) d_a_p 2006-12-18 11:01 pm UTC (link) Ясно, здесь та же петрушкаto this) (Parent) (Thread) egmg 2006-12-18 11:04 pm UTC (link) мне жаль, я бы Вас приняла сto this) (Parent) (Thread) d_a_p 2006-12-18 11:08 pm UTC (link) Ну хорошо, буду считать себясильно в жизни помогает, но чем-то приятно :)(Reply to this) (Parent) d_a_p 2006-12-18 11:11 pm UTC (link) Думаю, Вам надо сюдаstudying aspects.http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/12/13/the-sl-cultural-gap/#more-869(Reply to this) (Parent) (Read comments)- [...]

8. Elapsed Time: Worthy of Debate wrote on December 19th, 2006 at 1:08 am :

   [...] Amid the increasing chatter as to whether Second Life is hype or substance, the centrally satisfying aspect (at least to me) is that it’s worthy of debate by smart folks. As the service signs up resident #2,000,000 (w/ likely 500,000 of those active users), here are a few thoughts on the press, SL’s growth and its future.1) Hype can either be the result of willful misleading disinformation or expectation outstripping reality. Second Life is a firm case of the latter. A reporter listens to Philip’s vision, sees examples of some really amazing stuff in world and gets excited about the possibility. People are hopeful, they love the idea of a user-created world filled with meaning. They imagine what they would do in such a space. They write a glowing article. But what they describe isn’t always what SL is today, it’s what they imagine it could be. No different from its residents, whom i’d suggest are 20% there for what SL is today, 80% for what it could become.2) The press cycle is being driven by folks outside of SL. Bloggers, companies, media are the ones driving this story, not Second Life. Well, with the exception that Philip seems to really like speaking at conferences. That being said, I think SL hasn’t managed their messaging optimally and have been too willing to sell into the froth. Philip needs to add this statement to every interview and speech he does:”The growth is really exciting but Second Life is a hundred year project to build a virtual world.”This perspective and sense of timeline would give a needed credibility boost to the nature of this project. And it’s not inconsistent with how other CEOs handle similar situations. Eric Schmidt at Google has said it will take 300 years for Google to accomplish its mission. It sounds noble and cognizant of the challenges which remain. A humble stroke that Linden’s press sometimes leaves out.Oh yeah, and stop the “walk your avatar to the virtual Amazon store” idea. It reminds me of the folks who suggest the avatar should walk to the mailbox to pick up email.3) Fix the search and UI. Two of the most important aspects of the user experience - the UI and search - are just begging for revamping. You could probably double retention rates if these were improved. The UI was originally designed by James Cook, one of the smartest folks I know, but its crying out for a wholesale rethink.4) N 1. I used to tell Philip we needed to design for the N 1 user — what could we do to the product which would continue expanding the reach. While the world has certainly grown, at times it would appear that the team is still developing for the same user type, believing more and more average consumers will evolve to demonstrate those characteristics.Raph Koster had an interesting post on the SL cultural gap which reflects how SL doesn’t listen so much to ideas from outside of its world. In some ways this is what has allowed SL to be successful - if Philip, Cory and others had listened to all the skeptics in 2000-2004 SL would have evolved into something like 3d parlor games accompanied by avatar chat. As a strong-willed founder who believes in his vision, Philip is going to follow the path he believes in right. And the degree to which it is correct will always be the greatest determining factor in SL’s success.Labels: secondlife [...]

9. Post Comment wrote on December 19th, 2006 at 1:32 pm :

   [...] Долбозлобъ (d_a_p) wrote,@ 2006-12-19 00:27:00      Aerae Интересный пост о SL и похожих разработках.Анализ интернетных сообществ с точки зрения разработчика.( Автор поста Raph Koster сам недавно открыл Start-Up Aerae)Особенно мне понравился вот этот граф расползания новостей по блогам :)(Read comments)Post a comment in response: From:Anonymous OpenID Identity URL:  Log in?  LiveJournal user Username:Password:Log in?  Subject: [...]

10. Terra Nova wrote on December 24th, 2006 at 4:49 am :

    Terra Nova and its centrality in that game sphere map resurfaced on Raph Koster’s blog. This time embedded within a substantial essay suggesting that Second Lifers are insulated from the broader MMO tradition. It is a nuanced essay that deserves reading and comment there. If I had to abbreviate the point, however, I would choose this passage:

11. Friends wrote on December 26th, 2006 at 4:39 pm :

    [...] Link | Leave a comment | Add to MemoriesRandom linkiesDec. 23rd, 2006 | 08:36 pmposted by: _mikeAwesome graph at Yglesias’s. Agree, disagree, ignore his commentary, it doesn’t matter; but it is the quintessential political graph.Raph Koster griping about Second Life’s insularity (from TN). One of the reasons I don’t read TN as much as I ought is the interminable tiresome debate about just how different SL is from everything else that’s ever happened ever–for a while Richard Bartle would lay the “we resolved that one ten years ago on MUD-DEV” smackdown on anyone who didn’t show enough history, but he’s apparently distracted or gotten bored of that one.And… oh, yeah: on the MMO shop talk front, Three Rings is getting new office space, which is damned neat. Dunno how effective it actually is as a space to work in, but it’s fun to look at, at least. (and they’ve got a flagship product and associated theme, which makes it easier. to say nothing of whole-heartedly embracing schtick.)Tags: games, mmo, politics [...]

12. Zen of Design»Blog Archive » When 10 Hours Is Not Enough To Appreciate True Awesomeness wrote on January 16th, 2007 at 8:17 pm :

    [...] This guy was a loser because he didn’t mystically know which ‘essential’ add-ons make the game usable. At this point, it seems useful to point out Raph’s post where he essentially described those who talk about Second Life as insular and detached from reality. [...]

13. MMODump.com » When 10 Hours Is Not Enough To Appreciate True Awesomeness wrote on January 16th, 2007 at 8:47 pm :

    [...] This guy was a loser because he didn’t mystically know which ‘essential’ add-ons make the game usable. At this point, it seems useful to point out Raph’s post where he essentially described those who talk about Second Life as insular and detached from reality. [...]

14. Zen of Design wrote on January 31st, 2007 at 5:55 am :

    applications (as here, here, or here) which do offer some interoperability between Web and world. This guy was a loser because he didn’t mystically know which ‘essential’ add-ons make the game usable. At this point, it seems useful to point out Raph’s post where he essentially described those who talk about Second Life as insular and detached from reality. Second Life is a good idea that is hampered by overwhelmingly complex UI, an utter lack of direction, and movement that feels like wading through

15. Terra Nova wrote on April 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm :

    Penguins and Puffins Nate Combs Terra Nova and its centrality in that game sphere map resurfaced on Raph Koster’s blog. This time embedded within a substantial essay suggesting that Second Lifers are insulated from the broader MMO tradition. Continue reading “Penguins and Puffins” December 23, 2006 | Permalink | Comments (30)

1. Michelle Readman said on December 13th, 2006 at 6:31 pm :

   however, the PRIMARY lessons that SL seems to fail to absorb are ones that severely stunt its acceptance: instant enjoyability, guiding users, rewarding experiences on a regular basis, obvious interfaces, a premium on seamlessness (no lag, no disruptions, etc). if I had to pick which side would benefit more from a cultural exchange, there is zero doubt in my mind that it’s the SL side.

   I actually intended to make a reply about such things in response to your ‘jam’ post. A good jam doesn’t kick off without any music, someone sets the tone for the event. But if that person has their own personal sound guy with them mixing and doing effects, it ruins the jam.

   Similarly with all games, there is a spectrum of world-setting. You can start with an almost blank slate, like 1000 blank white cards or Second Life, allowing amazing freedom but requiring great investment and potentially putting people off until the next jam if they don’t like the feel. You can start with a vague world description and let players explore the concept. You can provide a strict world which players become fearful of altering (DnD forgotten realms crpgs? :P). Or you can provide a strong setting, then give players the means to make it their own (the UO RP croud is still very strong).

   Second Life didn’t like the idea of priming the world, in the manner that more typical virtual worlds would do. And what has now emerged is frankly off-putting to those of us who look in from the rest of the MMOG player scene. Whilst RP OOC politics is annoying, there is at least a game to many other virtual worlds, whilst second life’s game often seems to me to be politics and money making, much like the web itself. I registered for an account, but I’ve just not felt like putting the effort in I’d need to in order to make something of that jam session.

   Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant about SL.

   That said, I still keep an eye on SL, and I know it’s developments are important for the VW industry. The adiction to microtransactions, the SLEX, the UCC rules, even the ToS blogsphere discussions and technology talks. I see aspects that can be used in further game models, means to make a living, and useful social experiements. I might even use that account one day to look around, as the actual experience of playing is a vitial one to true understanding. I actually see a fair few people outside of SL discuss similar things, I’ve seen such things appear on forums from time to time.

   My walk through the SL blogsphere reveals that, as you say, the SL community does feel quite different. Part of me suspects that a lot of this is related to the problems that a lack of world priming has allowed.

   Even in the most stratified of cases, most other MMOGs with strong world priming tend to still have a somewhat united playerbase. PvPers may hate PvMers and vice versa, but they still will agree on a few things, and come to understand the value in eachother. This also applies to worlds where players can build the world, but the world started off with such a strong primer that people built upon rather than worked around.

   Second Life, however, does seem to have a number of distinct, non-meshing player groups within it:
   There are the furries, who need little more than a means to talk to create their fun.
   There are the FOSS and other ‘tekkie’ geeks, and I would strongly bet that these formed part of the initial critical mass needed to get SL off the ground.
   The new media industry is looking to SL, too, and journalists, commentators and professionals are all invovled.
   Academics find a lot of it facinating, with a good few postgrads studying aspects.
   Commercial players are one of the aspects unique to SL, ranging from traditional business to the get-rich-quick players.
   The regular person, who has found the game through all the promotional features that SL has seen.
   The gamer-geeks, who want a game to play.
   In some aspects, these different groups do support eachother. But from my reading, there is little they agree on aside from the “amazing significance to the future” of SL. Which, infact, is all that SL seemed to be primed with, and the biggest bit of information about the world that anyone outside of SL ever really hears (I can’t think of a nice word to describe this, help me out someone).

   On the issue of emotion and code, which you touched briefly on at the end, I am reminded very much by some of the discussions over at Groklaw . A lot of these things really get very complex, especially in matters of law and design. From a design point of view, I find this truth over VW objects both academically interesting and rather frightening, because it highlights a degree of trust and responsibility that has to be considered.

   Which thankfully brings me back to the topic at hand in order to close. Once again, the priming of the worlds and of the communities comes back into play. Such issues are typically resolved within the more-gamey/worldey (as opposed to UCC-ey or real-world-trade-y) games by a measure of the world priming. There are few illusions about who owns items, and in many respects I would argue that trust is placed more in the shared game, rather than in items and percieved ownership. As the ammount of primed game reduces, and the importance of UCC and real-world-trade increases, the importance of trust increases.

   (This post was brought to you by the word “prime” and the numbers 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17…)

2. Michelle Readman said on December 13th, 2006 at 7:23 pm :

   The more I think about it, the more I feel that community seperation and meshing is strongly related to the initial priming of those communities, how those communities react to drift in their focus, and how communities present themselves to the outside world.

   This is a greater issue than one just present within VWs, one which relates strongly to a lot of current international politics.

   From a VW perspective, however, the challenge of shaping this priming and promotion is certainly an area for investigation.

   SL’s priming towards ‘uniqueness’, isolating the community, may infact be why the game has been so easily adopted by the regular press. They don’t have to investigate any history or other products to understand the image put forward, and hence to attract SL more players. Fixing the weaknesses in SL you talk about would increase the priming level and make it less ‘unique’, damaging their current promotional model.

   I’m afraid I’m tired (which explains the long ramble, I’m sorry), and I can’t quite take the above onwards any more. What would be the benifits of allowing the promotional model to change? Would the rewards of improving the new user experience (essentially the problem outlined) outweigh the damage to the priming and promotion that it would cause?

   It’sa very strange business model to consider when going to bed.

3. Prokofy Neva said on December 13th, 2006 at 8:30 pm :

   I’ll give your post a more thorough reply on my own blog, Raph, but I have to say, your remarks sound to me like some of my English literature professors who used to fuss and fume about people who wrote poetry without knowing any classics, and not knowing the Four Quartets by heart, or not knowing sonnets, or not knowing what a simile is. But college kids, well, they just write poetry, some good, some bad, and even if they go through the formal training and learn all the protocols, they may actually still suck as poets.

   Oh, I grant you SL is insular. But it’sa big insular with a lot of open possibilities — certainly by contrast with WoW. You are forgetting that I did spend a lot of time in TSO and ATID and also visited There, and WoW and Runescape and things like that I tend to think of as war games for kids. I don’t see all this rich conceptually interesting stuff there that you and the TN types do.

   I don’t get why we should be dismissed as insular, parochial, and not knowing the history of our betters just because we never sat and slogged through the geeky wonkiness of a MUD. I never want to have to go in the MUD, Raph. Do I have to??? Why? Aren’t we past that now? Can’t we be?

   I don’t expect to completely absorb the history of a country when I visit it to appreciate it. In fact, if I go and “play” a country, it is only by entering it at its current, present level that gradually, I might unfold its history in some meaningful way.

   I wish, instead of drawing elaborate pedigrees and geneologies and family trees you would speak more distinctly to the *issues*. To strain them out of this or that game context, and articulate what they mean. And that’s what is missing. You can’t have an interesting discussion about CopyBot with 14 other gameworld geeks who don’t have user made content in their worlds.

   I don’t think of myself as having stars in my eyes about SL, or about being some hippie tree-hugging type that gets all giddy about some emotional high in SL. More often than not these days, you have a low in SL, not a high lol. But what I try to do is outline the various faculties of the human being. There is this or that spiritual faculty or property, this psychological property, that physical property. And a thing like SL reaches different places.

   And don’t be all bent out of shape over me selecting to criticize what you’re writing about this, not only is it not personal, but I think of you as the only enlightened game god we have really talking to customers/players/residents these days. I’m certainly not going to be getting Cory Linden to be talking to me about CopyBot; even if he had his pedigree in arcade games, I’ve now been banned off the Linden official blog merely for posing a question to Cory calling for accountability in his endorsement of libsecondlife, whose members made, deployed, and justify CopyBot.

   I think a lot of what I do write about is probably inside baseball to SL, and it may come out as sounding more meta than it is. But please don’t make me sit and struggle to level up in some dumb shooting game just to be part of the conversation about virtual worlds. I resist.

4. Michael Chui said on December 13th, 2006 at 8:44 pm :

   Michelle,

   One of the key things I took away from danah boyd’s recent paper on friendship and social network sites , was this:

   The networked nature of impressions does not only affect the viewer — this is how newcomers decided what to present in the first place. When people first joined Friendster, they took cues from the people who invited them. Three specific subcultures dominated the early adopters — bloggers, attendees of the Burning Man festival, and gay men mostly living in New York. If the invitee was a Burner, their Profile would probably be filled with references to the event with images full of half-naked, costumed people running around the desert. As such, newcomers would get the impression that it was a site for Burners and they would create a Profile that displayed that facet of their identity. In decided who to invite, newcomers would perpetuate the framing by only inviting people who are part of the Burning Man subculture.

   Summarily, whoever makes the first mark on a blank slate will find the world revolving around them, whether they like it or not, whether they intended it or not. That’s pretty standard in terms of adoption curves, but it’sa little inverted. The designer has the first opportunity to make a mark, and the content team thereafter may as well. In the case of Second Life, they chose not to make a mark in the world at all and let the early adopters do that.

   Part of the reason companies these days are encouraged to start a blog is so that they can “take part in the conversation”; and it’s pointed out that the conversation will happen without them if they don’t say anything. This mentality deserves getting ported over to community development: when you take part in the conversation, you lend in the Official Stance, which is all too easy to get absorbed by people who are true believers. In your average game, it’s far easier to become a true believer: that’s the point of roleplaying, to be immersed. So believing that the world is full of orcs and elves is pretty easy. Linden Labs did it differently; belief is about their status in the greater context of business, the Internet, and similar technologies. It’s harder to make true believers out of that, but clearly, it happens. Sigil is doing the same thing with Vanguard (”third generation MMORPG”, they say, not that I’m convinced), only less radically and not exclusively.

   In response to Matt Mihaly’s post on the Shirky write-up, I said, “SL ought to set up a game for the newbies inside a dome… and have normal SL outside it. You could come-of-age by stepping outside the dome Forever.” It might work; I have no idea.

5. Prokofy Neva said on December 13th, 2006 at 8:58 pm :

   Gaaah, that’s an awful concept, you leave your mark on a world just cuz you got their first and indelibly bork it forever? That’s not fair. And yet, you are right, that does happen. Reminds me of the chapter “The First Joke” in CS Lewis’ “The Last Battle” when they all came to the dawning of the creation of the world.

   It’s true that the Lindens cultivate all this technolibertarian stuff and can get fairly aggressive about it but I think at this point, they have a world where even Le Pen has opened up a sim there and an ACLU chapter member got started poking around. I mean, it’s got everything from soup to nuts. It’s like you too RL and reshuffled the deck.

   A dome for newbies? They have that. It’s called “Orientation Island” or “Welcome Island”. But you can’t really have much fun there, and who wants to sit and read notecards. You learn by doing in these places and having something you want to do badly enough that you’ll learn how to do it. And that’s why a lot of people don’t stick — they don’t want anything there badly enough to stick it out, and if it isn’t served up quickly enough, they leave. I find lots of 15 year old Little Princes tapping their foot and demanding I do for them even at my rentals level, and if the world won’t load, or they can’t rez or something else is awry, they go back to WoW lol.

6. Prokofy Neva said on December 13th, 2006 at 9:01 pm :

   Michelle, why would we need to prime worlds? I agree that a bit of a framework and even a very light overarching rule-of-law type of framework would be good, but why all this priming that sounds so intensely controlling and indelible? Couldn’t you just leave it to people to prime their own sim?

7. Raph said on December 13th, 2006 at 9:07 pm :

   Fair enough, Prok. And I hope you know that I am not saying this in any sort of aggressive way, but more as detached commentary.

   By and large, your English professors were right . It is extraordinarily rare to come across a good poet with no exposure to what has been done before, a musician who has never learned someone else’s music, and so on.

   A user doesn’t need to know about the history of other virtual worlds. But I think that for those who wish to be involved in commenting on, discussing, debating, advocating, dissecting, analyzing, developing, extending, or otherwise getting down and dirty, it’s essential. It’s hugely valuable. At the very least, it provides common ground for discussion. You aren’ta tourist visiting a foreign country anymore — you’re writing guidebooks for others. You’re critiquing, you’re advocating change, you’re prescribing.

   Keep in mind that what I described as insular was primarily the SL blogosphere, which is all made up of pundits. The pundits are the folks we want to be more widely read. (I like to think that part of the reason why people come to this blog is because though it is relatively tightly focused, it’s also broad and catholic in its references and sources. But maybe I’m wrong).

   If I could give you an Xmas present, it’d be Julian Dibbell’s first book, My Tiny Life: Crime and Passion in a Virtual World , because I think you’d both really appreciate it, and because I think it would help give lots of context that would make our discussions more fruitful.

   As far as interesting stuff — yeah, Runescape is a war game for kids. But the fact that there are extremely large networks of 11 year olds across multiple countries engaging in large-scale economic activity within it is fascinating . The way in which ATITD experiments with things like gender behavior research as part of their game design. The dynamics of voice chat versus text chat in high-level raiding organizations in WoW. Heck, WoW’s UI alone is a master class for Second Life in general.

   Can these be separated out, strained from the broth, so to speak? Sure. I have done that before… I did it with reputation systems and I did it with trust mechanics , if you recall. I did it with