Horses and the user-governed world Konji i korisnik-ravnaju svijetu May 24th, 2006 (Visited 7228 times) Tags: 24. svibanj, 2006 (Posjećeno 7228 puta) Tags:

Prokofy Neva said, in the Metaverse roadmap discussion thread, Prokofy Neva, rekao je, u Metaverse Putokaz rasprava konac,

What’s so tangled and complex about “who governs” (or as I put it often, “who develops?”) The game devs develop, and the game devs govern. Što je tako tangled i kompleks oko ", koji regulira" (ili kao što sam rekao je često ", koji se razvija?") Igra devs razviti, i igra devs vladati. Their junior partners, in the form of mods or wizards or junior devs or whatever are merely replications. Njihov junior partneri, u obliku Mods ili čarobnjaci ili juniora devs ili bilo koji su samo replications.

It’s hard to conceive of how complex governance will really get in a four-walls game world if the players cannot at some point leverage their power as consumers/prosumers/payers for the server into forcing a sharing of power, and a separation of powers, so that not only an overweening executive always prevails. Teško je zamisliti kako će kompleks upravljanja zaista dobiti od četiri zidinama igra svijeta ako igrači ne može u nekom trenutku njihova snaga kao moć potrošača / prosumers / obveznika za poslužitelja u forsiranje jednog dijeljenja vlasti, te odvajanje ovlasti, tako da ne samo samouvjeren izvršni uvijek prevladava.

Well, the tangled bit seems to me to be the issue of not whether the game operators are willing to hand over the power (some will, somewhere) but how they hand over the power. Pa, tangled bitnim čini mi se da se pitanje nije li u igri operateri su spremni predati vlast (neki će se, negdje), ali kako oni predaju vlast. The complicated bits are: U komplicirano bitova su:

• Until software is perfect, you will still need devs. Dok je savršeni softver, i dalje će vam trebati devs. This is a difference from the real world: privileged operators who can alter “reality.” To je razlika od stvarnog svijeta: operatore povlašteno koji može promijeniti "realnost".

• Until hardware is fully distributed, you will still need a server location and server operators. Do hardver potpuno distribuirani, od vas će i dalje trebati lokaciji poslužitelja i poslužitelja operatori. This is also a difference from reality: your universe is dependent upon points of failure; the real world is not. To je razlika od stvarnosti: Vaš svemir je ovisi o bodova od neuspjeha, u stvarnom svijetu ne.
• Until bandwidth and power and locations are free, you will still need money. Do te propusne moći i lokacije su besplatno, i dalje ćete trebati novac. This is also a difference; reality goes on whether we do anything or not. To je i razlika; stvarnost ide na to da li mi učiniti ništa ili ne. Virtual reality demands active contribution on someone’s part. Virtualna realnost zahtijeva aktivan doprinos na neko je dio.

In theory all of these can be provided communally, but the pieces aren’t yet all in place to do so. U teoriji sve te communally može biti određen, ali se još ne komade sve u mjesto da to učinite. I’d argue that governance in the real world is powerfully shaped by the lack of the above. Htio objašnjavati da upravljanje u stvarnom svijetu je snažno oblikovan uz nedostatak gore. Effectively, having a virtual world exist demands an act of responsibility; it does not suffer neglect. Učinkovito, s virtualnom svijetu postoje zahtjevi o odgovornosti, a ne pate zanemariti. It’s like a garden: it needs to be tended to some degree, or it decays. To je kao vrt: to treba da se skloni neki stupanj, ili ga raspadi.

Human psychology says that if some select individuals are shouldering a burden of responsibility, they will demand status that goes with it. Ljudska psihologija kaže da, ako odaberete neki pojedinci su shouldering na teret odgovornosti, oni će zahtijevati da stanje ide s njom. In fact, it’sa fundamental incentive structure that would quickly arise if we chose not to have it in place. U stvari, it'sa temeljni poticaj struktura koja bi brzo nastati ako smo izabrali da nema ga na mjestu.

And in this case, the responsibility carries with it a HUGE amount of power. I u ovom slučaju, odgovornost nosi s tim ogroman vlasti. And power, well… you know what they say about power. A vlast, ali ... znaš što kažu o vlasti. User participation in governance of virtual worlds is physically limited to what the administrators grant. Korisnički sudjelovanja u upravljanju i virtualni svijet je fizički ograničeni na ono što je administrator odobri. The trick is getting them to grant it. U trik je dobivanje im je dati.

If we had a fully peer to peer world with a widely distributed network that used bandwidth and power off of the donations of thousands of community members, and if all maintenance required was donations to the common good in some fashion (even as money used to pay contracted programmers) — eg, a network that was all volunteer — we might approach the user governance scenario. Ako smo imali potpuno ravnopravnih članova svijetu sa široko distribuirana mreža koje koriste propusne moci i isključivanje iz donacije tisuća članova zajednice, i ako je potrebna za održavanje svih donacija za opće dobro u nekim modnim (čak i kao novac koriste za plaćanje ugovorene programera) - na primjer, mreža koja je sve volonter - možemo pristup upravljanja scenarij korisnik. But even then, I would expect there to be pockets of traditional administration models, just because certain types of experiences demand it. Ali čak i tada, ja bi se očekivati da će džepova tradicionalne uprave modeli, upravo zbog određenih vrsta iskustava potreba to.

This drama is epic, and is central to how the Metaverse will play out. To je drama ep, te je centar za Metaverse kako će se igrati. Never in history have the developers been overtaken by the developed to such an extent, and so rapidly. Nikad u prošlosti su programeri su zatekne razvijen od strane za takav mjeri, i tako brzo. The Medicis, the Soviets, whatever, they all coopted the creative intelligentsia and technocrats and had them serve the regime by exchanging content for privileges, and using defunding or terror to keep the class in line. U Medicis, Sovjeti su, kako god, svi kooptiran kreativni inteligenciji i technocrats i imao ih služiti režima od strane razmjenu sadržaja za privilegije, i koristeći defunding ili terora kako bi se klasa u skladu. So now we’ll get to see how this is done with virtual world tools like banning or muting or expelling, I suppose, and see who wins the politics of fighting for feature sets. Pa sad ćemo vidjeti kako je to učinio virtualni svijet s alatima kao što su zabrane ili muting ili isključenjem, ja misliti, i vidjeti koji pobjeda politiku borbe za značajku setove.

I agree it is epic and central. Slažem se da je ep i centar. The point Prokofy raises is whether the forces of user income via virtual businesses will effectively force the administration of a world to share power. Stvar Prokofy postavlja je da li su snage korisnik prihoda putem virtualne tvrtke će učinkovito snagu upravom svijet dijeliti vlast. I really don’t know that this is a lever for the problem to an extent beyond the current status quo. Ja stvarno ne znam da je to poluga za problem u omjeru s trenutačni izvan dosadašnje stanje.

After all, currently all pay-for-play users have that lever. Uostalom, trenutno sve platiti za reprodukciju korisnici koji imaju poluge. By paying a sub fee or whatever other fee the service uses, they are providing operating capital and profit to the business. Uplatom grad naknadu ili bilo koji drugi naknadu za uslugu koristi, pod uvjetom da su operativni kapital i dobit u poslovanju. Should they “vote with their wallet,” they are effectively denying funds to the operators. Ako oni "glasati sa svojim lisnice", oni su zapravo uskraćivanje sredstava za operatere.

In the case of the virtual business with real money, perhaps some players have larger wallets to vote with, but fundamentally, it’s still the same tool: denying operating capital to the world. U slučaju virtualne poslovne pravog novca, možda neki igrači imaju veću Torbica za glasanje sa, ali u osnovi, to je još uvijek isti alat: uskraćivanje operativnog kapitala na svijetu.

Picture a couple of guys standing around a horse. Slika par dečki stoji oko konja. The first guy owns the horse, and rents it out. Prvi tip ima konja, i to se iznajmljuje. He’s got a gun and can shoot the horse. On je dobio oružje i mogu pucati na konju. He’s got the necessary stable. On je dobio potrebnu stabilizira. He doesn’t, however, have the money to feed it. On nije, međutim, imati novac to feed it. The other guy rents it, and if it weren’t for his payments, the horse would starve. Drugi tip iznajmljuje ga, a ako to nisu bili za njegov isplate, konja bi gladovati. He even uses the horse for his business, where he makes his living. On je čak i konj koristi za svoju tvrtku, gdje je čini njegova života. Now the renter has a grievance. Sada se zakupnik ima uvreda. His power over the horse owner is to simply let the horse starve. Njegova vlast nad konja vlasnik je jednostavno neka konja gladovati. And the power the horse owner has is to deny the renter access to the horse, and conceivably even shoot the horse dead. I na moć konja vlasnik ima je onemogućiti pristup na iznajmljivača na konju, i ubjedljivo čak i pucati konja mrtav.

Essentially, virtual world governance rests on mutually assured destruction. U osnovi, vladavine virtualno svijetu počiva na obostrano sigurni propast. The leverage that the renter has is basically to threaten to kill the horse — end the world. U moć da iznajmljivač ima je na osnovi zaprijetile da ubiju konja - kraj svijeta.

The horse owner typically doesn’t shoot the horse, although it has happened. Konj vlasnik obično ne pucati na konju, iako je dogodilo. The horse named Motor City Online was shot even though it had a few people who liked to ride it. Konj pod nazivom Motor City Online je pucao, iako je imao nekoliko ljudi koji se svidio da ga jahati. Some horses get shot and then recover (”she ain’t dead yet!”). Neki konji bi zatim pucao i oporavak ( "ona nije umrla još!"). Sometimes, the owner decides a horse is ready for the glue factory, but gives it to the renter, figuring, “what the heck, maybe it can still trot around a pasture and as long as they can feed it, they can have it, but it’s no good for any work anymore.” Ponekad, vlasnik odluči konj je spreman za ljepilo tvornica, ali ga daje za iznajmljivača, figuring ", što je pakao, možda ga mogu pokazati još oko paše i dokle god su mogli hraniti se, oni mogu imati, ali to nije dobro za bilo koje djelo više. "

What’s most likely is that the horse owner decides that they will just find another renter. Što je najvjerojatnije je da je konj vlasnik odluči da će se naći samo još jedan iznajmljivača.

Until we can break this analogy, there’s no really good reason for administrators to share power. Dok ne može prekršiti ovu analogiju, nema zaista dobar razlog za administratori dijeliti vlast. Many administrators will even choose to shoot the horse rather than share it, on the grounds that “it’s in my barn, people associate it with my name. Mnogi administratori će odlučiti čak i pucati na konju nego dijeliti, na osnovi da "to u mojoj štali, ljudi ga povezati s mojim imenom. If you do something bad with it, it hurts me.” This is the basis of IP, trademark, and corporate image concerns. Ako se nešto loše s njom, to boli me. "To je osnova IP, zaštitni znak, i korporativni image zabrinutost.

The whole “vote with your wallet” thing has instead resulted in different horse providers setting up shop. Cijeli "ocijena sa svojim lisnice", što je rezultiralo umjesto u različitim konj pružatelja postavljaju shop. This still doesn’t change the power equation that much for the renter. To ipak ne mijenja vlast jednadžba toliko za iznajmljivača. Their power to affect how the horse is cared for is still very limited. Njihova moć da utječe na način na koji konj je stalo je još uvijek vrlo ograničena.

Now, if a bunch of folks who liked horses got together, pooled cash to buy a stable, pooled cash to pay for feed, and declared themselves a nonprofit, maybe. Sad, ako gomila ljudi koji su voljeli konje dobio zajedno, udružuje novca za kupovinu stabilna, udružuje gotovinom za plaćanje hrane, a izjasnili su neprofitna, možda.

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65 Responses to “Horses and the user-governed world” Odgovori na 65 "konja i korisnik-ravnaju svijet"

1. Faith wrote on May 24th, 2006 at 11:49 am : Vjera je pisao o 24 Svibanj 2006 u 11:49:

   [...] Comments [...] Komentari [...] [...]

2. 3pointD.com wrote on May 25th, 2006 at 5:48 am : 3pointD.com napisao na 25 Svibanj 2006 u 5:48 pm:

   Beyond Virtually Assured Destruction Beyond gotovo sigurni uništenje

   Raph Koster yesterday extended some ideas from the Metaverse Grudge Match that began last week. Raph Koster jučer je produžen neke ideje iz Metaverse inat Utakmica koja je počela prošli tjedan. Raph talks about the kinds of power users and administrators have over the virtual worlds they occupy and run, and the fact that both camps ultimately find … Raph razgovora o vrstama vlasti korisnici i administratori imaju preko virtualni svjetovi su zauzeti i pokrenuti, i činjenica da oba logora u konačnici naći ...

3. Grant Money Programs wrote on May 25th, 2006 at 8:11 am : Money Grant program napisao na 25 Svibanj 2006 u 8:11 pm:

   Original post:Horses and the user-governed world Originalni post: Konji i korisnik-ravnaju svijetu

4. Raph’s Website » Portable identity wrote on May 25th, 2006 at 8:55 am : Raph's Web stranica »Prijenosni identiteta napisao na 25 Svibanj 2006 u 8:55 pm:

   [...] 3pointD.com picks up on the discussion on horses and governance (alas, without using the horse metaphor!) and offers, The alternative is a distributed metaverse in which a series of online spaces exist not in a contiguous pile but as loosely connected locations on a metaversal web, much as Web sites are connected today. [...] 3pointD.com preuzima se na raspravu o konjima i upravljanje (jao, bez upotrebe konja metafora!) I nudi, a alternativa je raspodijeljena metaverse u kojem niz online prostore ne postoji u susjedni hrpa, ali kao labavo povezanoj lokaciji na metaversal webu, koliko Web stranice su povezane i danas. Some of these would be public, some would be private, some would be restricted to a certain group of people. Neki od tih bi se javnost, neki bi biti privatni, a neki bi se ograničiti na određenu skupinu ljudi. Instead of one administrator, you have thousands or millions. Umjesto jednog administratora, imate tisuće ili milijune. Instead of your inventory and avatar and all that’s associated with it existing in one place, dependent on that place’s back-end, those things exist in portable fashion. Umesto vaše inventara i avatar i sve što je povezana s postojećim to na jednom mjestu, ovisi o mjestu koje je natrag na kraju, te stvari postoje u prijenosni način. Under this model — in which you can host your own corner of the virtual world (or have it hosted for you through a hosting service) — exit costs are radically reduced. Prema ovom modelu - u kojoj možete domaćin vlastiti kutak u virtualnom svijetu (ili su ga domaćin za vas kroz hosting usluga) - izlaz su radikalno smanjene troškove. If I leave a loosely connected space in the distributed metaverse, all I lose is access to that space. Ako sam ostaviti labavo povezan prostor u distribuirani metaverse, sve sam izgubio je pristup tom prostoru. My inventory and identity go with me. Moj inventara i identiteta ići sa mnom. The administrator may lose the income associated with my activities there, but small spaces are much less costly to run, so my power over the administrator is reduced (though not eliminated). Administrator svibanj izgubiti prihod povezane s mojim aktivnostima u njemu, ali male prostore su mnogo manje skupe za rad, tako da moja moć nad administrator je smanjen (premda ne eliminiraju). The people have more power, much as Prok envisions. Ljudi imaju više snage, koliko je Prok envisions. (If the network is built on an open-source, peer-to-peer architecture, the people have even more power.) [...] (Ako se mreža je izgrađena na open-source, ravnopravna arhitektura, ljudi su čak i više sile.) [...]

5. Horses and the user-governed world on Raph Koster - MMOz wrote on May 25th, 2006 at 9:43 am : Konji i korisnik-ravnaju na svijetu Raph Koster - MMOz napisao na 25 Svibanj 2006 u 9:43 pm:

   [...] Horses and the user-governed world on Raph Koster Horses and the user-governed world on Raph Koster Quote: [...] [...] Konji i korisnik-ravnaju na svijetu Raph Koster Konji i korisnik-ravnaju na svijetu Raph Koster Citat: [...]

6. Sloe Times » Truely Next Generation MMO Gaming wrote on May 25th, 2006 at 6:31 pm : Trn Times »Zaista Next Generation MMO Gaming napisao na 25 Svibanj 2006 u 6:31 am:

   [...] A recent post by Raph Koster got me to thinking about why is it that MMOs never really seem to find the right mix of entertainment that would hook me as a player for more than a few months. [...] Nedavno post by Raph Koster dobio me na razmišljanje o tome zašto je to da MMOs nikad zaista izgleda da pronađete pravu kombinaciju zabave da bi kuka mene kao igrač za više od nekoliko mjeseci. I think its safe to say that I’m in total disagreement about a player governed virtual world as presented by the OP that Raph was responding to. Mislim da je njegov sigurno reći da sam u ukupnoj neslaganja oko igrača ravnaju virtualnom svijetu predstavili kao od OP da Raph je reagirati na. The primary reason being that the ‘players’ who would end up governing are most likely not people I would trust my long term entertainment prospects to. Osnovni razlog su da je 'igrača' koji će završiti uređuju se najvjerojatnije ne bih povjerenje ljudi moji dugoročni izgledi za zabavu. [...] [...]

7. Raph’s Website » Monthly Report, May-June 2006 wrote on June 1st, 2006 at 5:12 pm : Raph's Web stranica »Mjesečno izvješće, svibanj-lipanj 2006 napisao na 1. lipanj 2006 u 5:12 am:

   [...] Horses and the user-governed world [...] [...] Konji i korisnik-ravnaju svijetu [...]

8. Brownian Emotion » Metaverse 2.0 — Topology and Trust wrote on June 4th, 2006 at 12:26 am : Brownovo Osjećaji »Metaverse 2.0 - Topologija i povjerenja napisao na 4. lipanj 2006 u 12:26 pm:

   [...] Here’sa bit of synthesis and opinion following several recent blog posts on the subject of Metaverse 2.0 (thanks, Stefan). [...] Here'sa malo sinteza i sljedeće mišljenje nekoliko nedavnih blogu na temu Metaverse 2.0 (hvala, Stefan). Start off with these three (Raph’s Koster & 3pointD & OgleEarth).First, for those who want to see Metaverse 2.0 (from here on, M2) as an open unrestricted peer to peer world, I’ll argue that custom worlds/apps like SecondLife and WoW will always exist, much as AOL continues to exist (and I don’t mean to insult anyone with the stigma of AOL users) despite or perhaps because of the wide open web. Počnite sa ove tri (Raph's Koster & 3pointD & OgleEarth). Prvo, za one koji žele vidjeti Metaverse 2,0 (od ovdje, M2) kao otvoreni neograničen ravnopravnih članova svijet, ja ću argumentirati da prilagođeni svjetovima / funkcije kao i SecondLife WOW uvijek će postojati, koliko je AOL i dalje postoji (i ne znači da nikoga uvrijediti s ljaga za AOL korisnike) unatoč ili možda zato što je širom otvoren webu. There’sa reason people choose MySpace vs. any number of free  homepage hosting services. Nalazi se birati ljudi razlog MySpace vs neograničen broj besplatnih početnoj stranici web hosting. These private virtual worlds can and will continue to grow with time. Ovi privatni virtualni svjetovi mogu i nastavit će s vremenom rasti. [...] [...]

9. Grimwell Online :: wrote on June 19th, 2006 at 8:08 pm : Grimwell Online:: napisao je na 19. lipanj 2006 u 8:08 am:

   [...] It’s interesting that, aside from game design, one of the common topics you are likely to always see in any game discussion are complaints about the attitude and behaviors of certain players. [...] To je zanimljivo da je, osim dizajna igre, jedna od uobičajenih tema koju se vjeruje da uvijek vidjeti u bilo koje igre su pritužbe raspravu o odnosu i ponašanja pojedinih igrača. Players complaining about players. Igrači jadikovanje o igračima. The Guardian last week had an article regarding griefers and interviewed Lum and Richard Bartle. The Guardian prošlog tjedna imao je članak u vezi griefers i intervjuiran Lum i Richard Bartle. Similarly, in a post last week on his personal blog, Chris Bateman felt compelled to defend himself from a drive-by flaming. Slično tome, u post prošlog tjedna na njegov osobni blog, Chris Bateman osjetio primoran da se brani od drive-by plameni. We also had on GO last week Geldonyetich’s thread about forums users and their impact. Također smo imali prošlog tjedna na GO Geldonyetich je nit o forumima korisnici i njihov utjecaj. These aren’t references to people complaining, but instead these are examples in one week of a growing concern for the state of behaviors apparent in online gaming. To se ne odnose na osobe jadikovanje, ali umjesto ovih primjera se u jednom tjednu, a raste zabrinutost za stanje očito ponašanja u online igara. I don’t think this is a moral issue. Ne mislim da je ovo moralni problem. It’s not about censuring people or driving out the newbs or whatever. Nije o censuring ljudi ili vožnje kroz newbs ili bilo što. I think this is an interesting problem for a couple of reasons: 1) Learned Behavior The average gamer age in 2005, according to the ESA, is 33. Mislim da je to zanimljiv problem za nekoliko razloga: 1) naučili ponašanju Gamer Prosječna starost u 2005, prema ESA je 33. A fact I found startling was that only 31% of players surveyed were under 18, leading to the speculation of an average age and a further breakdown that 44% of players are 18-49 years and 25% are 50 years. A zapravo sam iznenađen da je bio samo 31% ispitanih su igrači ispod 18 godina, vodi do spekulacija o prosječnom dobi i dalje kvar da 44% igrača su 18-49 godina i 25% su 50 godina. This seems large, but the point is still meaningful whatever the data; namely, that there’sa majority of players out there who should know how to act with others. To čini velik, ali stvar je još uvijek smisla bez obzira na podatke, naime, da se nalazi većina igrača vani koji bi trebali znati kako postupati s drugima. If the adults are the ones acting badly on average, what is this going to teach new entrants to genres and gaming in general? Ako odrasli su one djelovale loše u prosjeku, što je ovaj ide učiti novi novi članovi na žanrovi i igre općenito? This isn’t an appeal to morals, it’s common sense. Ovo nije se morala je zdrav razum. More experienced and more mature players should know how to govern themselves better and how to encourage better behaviors. Više i više zrele iskusni igrači trebali znati kako upravljati sami bolje i bolje kako potaknuti ponašanja. Otherwise, there’s no guarantee things won’t be worse in the future — the future being tonight or whenever you’ll be playing next. Inače, nema garanciju stvari neće biti lošiji u budućnosti - budućnosti se večeras ili kada ćemo se igrati sljedeći. 2) Growing Market With the story breaking from f13 and Sir Bruce the other day, we know that Blizzard has reached worldwide 6M users and is probably planning to expand its other successful titles to the MMO genre. 2) Uzgoj tržištu priču o rastavljanju od f13 i Sir Bruce drugi dan, znamo da Mećava dosegao 6m korisnika širom svijeta i je vjerojatno planira proširiti svoje druge uspješne naslove u MMO žanr. Aside from that, we also all know from watching planned releases and industry buzz that there’sa sizable amount of investment going on by other providers looking to match Blizzard. Osim toga, i mi svi znamo iz gledate planirano za tisak i industrije zujanje koje nalazi znatan iznos ulaganja događa po drugi pružatelji usluga traže da se podudaraju Mećava. The market is growing and so are the tactics and reach for demographics so far unmined for online games. Na tržištu je sve veći i tako su taktika i doseg za demografiju do sada unmined za online igre. Maybe it’s like the late 1990’s AOL example of a sudden surge of newbies to the Internet, but we’re going to see more new gamers from probably different cultures and backgrounds to MMO’s. Možda je poput AOL-a koncem 1990 primjer nagli val od Newbies na Internet, ali mi smo išli prema više vidjeti novi gamere vjerojatno iz različitih kultura i pozadine za MMO-a. How are these people going to react, and how will they behave based on some of the common griefing we all know about? Kako su ti ljudi ide na reagovati i kako će se ponašati na temelju nekih zajedničkih griefing svi smo znali? They’ll probably reciprocate, since a lot of bad behaviors aren’t curbed. Oni vjerojatno ćete uzvraćati, jer dosta loše ponašanja nisu curbed. And in some cases, like with RMT farming, they’re rewarded. A u nekim slučajevima, kao što je s RMT poljodjelstvo, oni nagrađeni. 3) New Designs If poor behaviors continue in a game and get enough visibility or provider concern, the provider usually has to respond. 3) Novi dizajni Ako siromaha ponašanja nastaviti u igru i dobiti dovoljno vidljivost ili usluga zabrinutost, i usluga obično je odgovoriti. It’s more cost effective for them to prevent any common problems than to work at resolving individual user issues. To je još jeftin za njih da spriječi bilo kakve zajedničke probleme nego raditi na rješavanju pojedinačnih problema korisnika. This is why we see some providers rolling back innovative designs and launching new titles with much thinner and/or restrictive feature sets. To je razlog zašto smo vidjeti nekih inovativnih pružatelji valjanje natrag dizajnira i lansiranje novih naslova s mnogo razrjeđivač i / ili restriktivne značajka setove. For example, if enough people keep having negative experiences in PvP, then of course we’ll see some providers launch MMO’s without it. Na primjer, ako dovoljno ljudi koji imaju negativna iskustva držati u PvP, a zatim, naravno, mi ćemo pogledati neke davatelje usluga pokrenuti MMO-a i bez njega. If combat imbalances and skewed economies from duping or whatever are a worry, then we’ll get MMO’s without any player crafting at all. Ako borbene neuravnoteženosti i skewed gospodarstava iz duping ili bilo što su brige, onda ćemo dobiti MMO-a bez igrača crafting na sve. Whether you’re aching for innovation or just a game with a different mix of common themes, if there are endemic bad player behaviors with those themes, that’s likely to scare away any designer from taking any chances. Bilo da ste bolan za inovaciju ili samo igre s drugom spoju zajedničke teme, ukoliko postoje endemske loš igrač ponašanja s tim temama, koje je vjerojatno da će bilo koji dizajner panika daleko od uzimanja bilo koje šanse. The designer will redeploy the feature or build it in a future title with a lot of extra oversight or curbs. U dizajneru će redeploy značajke ili ga graditi u budućnosti naslov sa mnogo dodatnog nadzora ili curbs. Whatever you care about (eg socialization, PvP, trading, crafting), it’s likely you’ll be affected in the future by some new or existing title if there’s already seems to be a lot of griefing in your favorite design — or just a lot less enthusiasm to experiment. Što vam je stalo (npr. socijalizacija, PvP, trgovanje, crafting), to je vjerojatnije da ćete biti pogođeni u budućnosti neki novi ili postojeći naslov ako postoji već čini se da je puno griefing u svoje omiljene dizajn -- ili samo puno manje entuzijazam za eksperiment. 4) External Governance There’s been lots of examples, but it’s proof enough that politicians and the people who service them are starting to find online gaming an area to exploit. 4) Vanjska upravljanja je bilo mnogo primjera, ali to je dokaz da je dosta političara i ljudi koji su im usluge počevši pronaći online igre prostor za iskoristiti. It’s in the best interest of any provider to avoid bad publicity, but it’s really beneficial to avoid the kind of Hot Coffee press, because that brings a level of scrutiny and persistence to an issue that tags a provider for years. To je u interesu bilo koji usluga kako bi se izbjeglo loše javnosti, ali je zaista koristan kako bi se izbjeglo vrstu pritisnite Vruća Kava, jer to donosi razinu provjere i ustrajnost na pitanje da oznake davatelj godinama. Forgetting about ESRB ratings and Jack Thompson for a minute, if politicians and their handlers (including the media) feel that griefing in online games is a tasty issue, it will chill innovation and probably affect directly the kind of play we’ve become used to. Zaboravljam o ESRB rejting i Jack Thompson za minutu, ako političari i njihove Autosaloni (uključujući medije) misli da griefing u online igrama je ukusna problem, to će vjerojatno i ohladiti inovacija izravno utjecati na vrstu igre smo postali koristi za . We can’t be naïve about this or issues like net neutrality. Mi ne mogu biti naivni o ovom ili pitanja kao što su net neutralnosti. 5) Costs It’s not always acknowledged, but the cost to maintain an online service’s code of conduct is probably significant. 5) Troškovi Nije uvijek priznao, ali cijene za održavanje online usluge kodeks ponašanja je vjerojatno značajan. Usually, any phone call, email or customer “touch” has an n $1 cost to a provider. Obično, bilo koji telefonski poziv, e-mail klijent ili "dodirom" ima n 1 $ na cijene usluga. Anytime human involvement is required to inform or resolve a situation it is a substantial cost for an online gaming company. Anytime ljudski angažman je dužan obavijestiti ili riješiti situaciju to je znatan trošak za online igre tvrtke. Substantial, because they could otherwise just depend on a EULA or TOS or FAQ to govern player activities. Bitan, jer bi inače mogli samo ovise o EULA-om ili TOS FAQ ili upravljati igrač aktivnosti. And that’s money that could have been spent on infrastructure, new development, defect correction, new artwork, new design, etc. The more a community spirals out of control, the less flexibility a provider has to budget money aside for new things, or for items already promised or needed. A to je novac koji bi mogao imati je proveo na infrastrukturu, razvoj novih, kvar korekcija, nova umjetnička djela, novi dizajn, itd. više zajednicu spirals izvan kontrole, manje fleksibilnosti davatelj ima na stranu proračuna novac za nove stvari, ili za stavke već obećao ili je potrebno. It’s not just the costs of human CSR’s, it’s also the effort and hardware costs to build new CSR tools, to correct exploits, to provide and update documentation and more. To je ne samo troškove ljudskih DOP-a, je također truda i hardverske troškove za izgradnju nove DOP alata, otkad se ispravni, da i ažuriranje dokumentacije i više. Defects always have a cost, but when people exploit them, I expect the costs are exponential, since they have a rippling effect requiring CSR involvement, documentation, etc. And defects aside, just the costs to remedy individual harassment or whatever has probably a larger cost (since it takes more time to prove and resolve ) than just helping a player who is stuck in the geometry. Grešaka uvijek ima cijenu, ali kad ljudi iskorištavaju ih, ja očekujem troškove su eksponencijalna, budući da oni imaju učinak rippling zahtijevaju angažman na polju DOP-a, dokumentacije, itd. A grešaka na stranu, samo na pravni lijek troškovi pojedinačnih uznemiravanja ili bilo koji je vjerojatno veće cijeni (od toga treba više vremena da se dokazuju i rješavaju) nego samo pomaže igrač koji je zapinjati u geometriji. So bad behaviors do cost and do take away from innovation or new releases. Tako loše ponašanja učiniti cijene i učiniti oduzeti od inovacija i novih izdanja. I think those are good reasons for us to take bad behaviors seriously in games and on their official forums (which are just an extension of the game itself). Mislim da oni su dobri razlozi za nas da se ozbiljno lošeg ponašanja u igrama i na njihovim službenim forumima (koji su tek produžetak igre sebe). Enough developers have tried to comment on why things like forums and player governance are problematic, and how forum fires start . Dosta programeri su pokušali da komentirati zašto stvari poput foruma i igrač upravljanja problematicni forum požari i kako započeti. It seems to me enough people just aren’t getting it. Čini mi se dovoljno ljudi jednostavno ne dobivam ga. Or else there are further problems, maybe from design or things like RMT, that increase the problem. Ili postoje daljnje probleme, možda od dizajna ili stvari poput RMT, koji povećavaju problem. Regardless, griefing and deliberate negativity have a bad affect, and gamers may be starting to realize these costs more.Let us know how you really feel _uacct = “UA-389212-1″; urchinTracker(); [...] Bez obzira, griefing i namjerno negativnost imaju loše utjecati i gamere svibanj se počinju realizirati ove troškove more.Let nam kako ste stvarno osjećati _uacct = "UA-389212-1"; urchinTracker (); [...]

10. Tide's Horizon wrote on June 19th, 2006 at 11:41 pm : Plima's Horizon pisao na 19. lipanj 2006 u 11:41 sati:

    I think those are good reasons for us to take bad behaviors seriously in games and on their official forums (which are just an extension of the game itself). Mislim da oni su dobri razlozi za nas da se ozbiljno lošeg ponašanja u igrama i na njihovim službenim forumima (koji su tek produžetak igre sebe). Enough developers have tried to comment on why things like forums andplayer governance are problematic, and how forum fires start . Dosta programeri su pokušali da komentirati zašto stvari poput foruma andplayer upravljanja problematicni forum požari i kako započeti. It seems to me enough people just aren’t getting it. Čini mi se dovoljno ljudi jednostavno ne dobivam ga. Or else there are further problems, maybe from design or things like RMT, that increase the problem. Ili postoje daljnje probleme, možda od dizajna ili stvari poput RMT, koji povećavaju problem. Regardless, griefing and deliberate negativity have a bad affect, and Bez obzira, griefing i namjerno negativnost imaju loše utjecati, i

11. MMO Round Table :: View topic - Player Governance in an MMO wrote on November 24th, 2006 at 9:10 pm : MMO Okrugli stol:: Pogledajte temu - Player upravljanja u MMO pisao na 24. studeni 2006 u 9:10 am:

    [...] Player Governance in an MMO Dangerous Commoner Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 14 Location: UK 281 XP 0 0 0 268 0 View Inventory Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:07 am     Post subject: Player Governance in an MMO I am fascinated by the idea of player governance in an MMO, which Ryan mentions in his article on the end game. [...] Player upravljanja u MMO Opasan prost Pridružen: 21 Apr 2006 Postovi: 14 Lokacija: Velika Britanija 281 XP 0 0 0 268 0 Prikaži Inventar Posted: Fri 26. svibnja 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Player upravljanja u MMO sam fasciniran ideju igrač upravljanja u MMO koji Ryan spominje u svom članku na kraju igre. It would not interest everyone, but then many people live in the real world without paying attention to politics; despite the impact that it has on their daily lives. To ne bi interes svih, ali onda mnogi ljudi žive u stvarnom svijetu bez uplaćene pozornost na politiku, unatoč utjecaju koji je na svojim svakodnevnim životima. For the sake of this post, I am going to assume an MMO with several city states as a basis for the examples. Jer radi ovaj post, ja odlazim, da preuzme MMO grad s nekoliko država kao osnova za primjere. The same questions would arise if players controlled planets in a far distant galaxy, or nations across an entire globe. Ista pitanja bi nastati ako igrači kontroliranim planeta u daleko udaljene galaksije, ili narodima diljem cijelog svijeta. If the rules controlling participation in the governing of a city are in the hands of the government, will there be a trend to open up that government or concentrate power in the hands of a single ruler or clique. Ako pravila sudjelovanja u kontroli vladajuće, a grad je u rukama vlada, tamo će se trend otvoriti da vlada ili koncentrirati vlast u rukama jednog vladara ili grupa. Will cities have any sort of independent judiciary, or will justice be administered by the government. Hoće gradovi imaju bilo kakve nezavisne sudstvo, ili će pravda se obavljalo od strane vlade. Will there be any non-republican democracies, by which I mean cities in which decisions are reached by the people directly and not through their representatives. Hoće li biti bilo koji ne-republikanac demokracije, po kojem mislim gradovima u kojima se odluke do naroda, a ne direktno preko svojih predstavnika. Will those in government use that participation to enrich themselves either through direct use of tax revenues or by accepting donations to make decisions favourable to the paying player? Hoće li oni u vladi ga koristiti za sudjelovanje obogaćuju sami ili kroz direktne upotrebe prihodi odnosno Prihvaćajući donacije donositi odluke povoljne za placanje igraca? How will the tax versus expenditure balance play out. Kako će porezni izdaci u odnosu na saldo iz igrati. If tax revenues can pay for things that make the city better for players, will there be support for higher taxes that bring tangible benefits to the citizens? Ako prihodi mogu platiti za ono što čini grad bolje igrače, tu će biti podrška za veći porezi koji donose materijalne koristi za građane? If a government is unpopular, will it be possible for a group of players to attempt a coup? Ako vlada je nepopularan, to će biti moguće za grupu igrača će pokušati puccem? If low taxes have left the city guard underpaid, will they turn on the government? Ako su niski porezi napustio grad nedovoljno straže, oni će se okrenuti na vlasti? In the real world there are substantial impediments to moving to a new country, such as distance from family, moving property, language and cultural differences. U stvarnom svijetu postoje znacajne prepreke da se seli na novu zemlju, kao što su udaljenost od obitelji, pokretne imovine, jezika i kulturne razlike. In an MMO these are less of a factor, therefore we could see people moving between cities seeking a place with the tax regime, political stability, or governmental system they wanted. U MMO su to manje od faktora, stoga smo mogli vidjeti ljude kreće između gradova tražeći mjesto s porezna vlast, političke stabilnosti, ili vladinih sistema oni htjeli. Would states attempt to restrict people leaving? Želite država pokušati ograničiti ljudi odlaze? Would states put barriers in the way of incoming immigration? Želite država stavi prepreka na putu dolazni imigracije? The MMO that provided for this sort of political development, would be a world in which players had an influence on how cities grew and shrunk. The MMO pod uvjetom da za ovu vrstu političkog razvoja, bi se svijet u kojem igrači imali utjecaj na gradove, kako je rastao i shrunk. A world that did not reset itself every each server reboot. A svijet koji nije sama resetira svaki svaki poslužitelj dignite. If NPC monsters tended to move away from well populated, well guarded cities, then we could see players in search of adventure moving, even if not permanently to a city in a less secure area. Ako NPC čudovišta skloni se odmaknuti od dobro popunjena, dobro čuvan gradova, onda bismo mogli vidjeti igrača u potrazi za avanturom premještanja, čak i ako ne trajno do grada u manje siguran područje. All of these questions intrigue me. Sva ta pitanja rabota mene. I do not know if the same lower restraints compared to r/l on anti-social behaviour that are seen in existing MMO would make such a game impossible, but I would certainly be interested in trying to find out._________________Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. Ne znam je li isti restraints niža u odnosu na r / l na anti-socijalnog ponašanja koja su vidjela u postojećim MMO bi takvu igru nemoguće, ali ja bi sigurno biti zainteresirani za pokušavate pronaći out._________________Any društva da bi se malo slobode da dobije malo sigurnosti ne zaslužuju te će izgubiti oboje. garvity Vassal Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 35 879 XP 0 0 0 618 0 View Inventory Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:44 pm     Post subject: A Tale in the Desert has a really interesting player government system. garvity Vazal Pridružen: 21 Apr 2006 Postovi: 35 879 XP 0 0 0 618 0 Prikaži Inventar Posted: Fri 26 Svibanj 2006 12:44 Post subject: A Tale u pustinji ima stvarno igrača vlasti zanimljiv sustav. Players can collect signatures from other players and then submit their proposals up for a server-wide vote. Igrači mogu prikupiti potpise od drugih igrača, a zatim poslati svoj prijedlog za server-wide glasati. Players can create and vote on laws (game rules) and game features. Igrači mogu stvoriti i glasovanje o zakonima (pravila igre) i igre značajke. Of course, in the end it’s up to the devs to implement the changes (or not), but that veto power isn’t used very often. Naravno, na kraju je do devs kako bi se provele promjene (ili ne), ali da je moć veta ne koristi vrlo često. There is also another aspect that involves nationwide elections for a "Demi-Pharaoh." Postoji i drugi aspekt koji uključuje državnih izbora za "polu-faraon." A player elected to that position has the power to permanently ban a limited number of players. A igrač izabran na tu poziciju ima snage da se trajno zabraniti ograničeni broj igrača. The power can be used to deal with griefers or for other less virtuous purposes. Snaga se može koristiti za rješavanje griefers ili za druge manje moralan svrhe. Needless to say, it’sa very interesting virtual political environment. Nepotrebno reći, it'sa vrlo zanimljiv virtualni političkim okoliš. Raph also wrote on this topic earlier this week: Horses and the user-governed world_________________MMOz.com Glazius Page Joined: 08 May 2006 Posts: 104 1623 XP 0 0 0 99 1 View Inventory Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:40 am     Post subject: Player governance would work better in SWG than in WoW. Raph također pisao na ovu temu ranije ovaj tjedan: Konji i korisnik-ravnaju world_________________MMOz.com Glazius Stranica Pridružen: 08 Svibanj 2006 Postovi: 104 1623 XP 0 0 0 99 1 Pregled Inventar Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:40 pm Post Naslov: Player upravljanja bi raditi bolje nego u SWG u WOW. Or rather, it _won’t_ work in anything with a raid-based "endgame", because all you need is one guild to drop a prohibitive "toll road" on the way to the next boss in the raid chain and your server drama asplode. Ili radije, to _won't_ rad u ništa s napa-based "završna igra", jer sve što trebate je jedan ceh na pad jednog previsoki "cesta s naplatom cestarine" na putu do sljedećeg šef u napad lanac i vašeg servera drame asplode . Informal player governance is working in EVE. Neformalne igrač upravljanja radi se u predvečerje. Powerful corporations can lay claim to certain areas of space and set up things like guardbots and repair stations. Snažan pravnih osoba mogu polagati tvrde da se određena područja u prostor i postaviti stvari poput guardbots i popravak stanice. But ultimately, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, or something like that. No, u konačnici, cijena slobode je vječni budnost, ili nešto slično. Player governance will only take off if people don’t have to carve their own niches out of someone else’s hide. Player upravljanja će poletjeti samo ako se ljudi ne moraju isklesati svoje nišama iz netko je sakriti. –GF Giblet Serf Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 3 Location: I dunno, but it smells really bad. GF-guščija iznutrica kmet Pridružen: 01 Lipanj 2006 Postovi: 3 Lokacija: I dunno, ali stvarno loše miriše. 140 XP 0 0 0 95 0 View Inventory Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:00 am     Post subject: Player run instanced cities might work for this. 140 XP 0 0 0 95 0 Prikaži Inventar Posted: Sun 01 Lipanj 2006 10:00 Post subject: Player pokrenuti instanced gradovima možda za ovaj posao. Lets say for example in eq2 a guild that has done quest X to acheive the rights to build a city gets its own instance where certain guild ranks can move and edit certain features of the city. Omogućava reći npr. u eq2 jedan ceh koji ima zadatak X učinio kako bi se postigla prava za izgradnju grada dobiva svoj vlastiti primjer gdje određeni ceh redova može premjestiti i urediti određene funkcije u gradu. Lower merchant costs for items but at the same time require a minimum weekly fee of coin and status to maintain the city so that merchant costs cannot be abused below the standard. Niži troškovi za trgovačke stvari, ali u isto vrijeme zahtijevaju minimalno tjedno naknadu za novac i status kako bi održali grad, tako da trgovac troškovi ne mogu biti zlostavljani ispod standarda. Employ guards that will attack certain other guilds if they are foolish enough to entire your city. Zavod stražari koji će napadati neke druge cehovi ako su dovoljno ludi da se cijeli vaš grad. Or perhaps those guards will crumble beneath the might of unwelcome guests. Ili možda oni će se raspasti stražari pod snagom nemio gost. Earn "city coin" based on the sales made by your city merchants and from the rent costs from anyone who lives in your city, so more popular cities can earn "city coin" and purchase upgrades for your town. Zaradite "grad novac" na temelju prodaje koje je napravio vaš grad i trgovci iz najam troškova od svakoga tko živi u vašem gradu, tako da više popularnih gradova može zaraditi "grad novac" i kupnja nadogradnje za svoj grad. Grow from a small village to a small town to a thriving walled metropolis to fend off the legions of orcs and packs of gnolls that attack daily. Širi iz malog sela u malom gradu na napredan stijenki metropola odbiti da je legija orcs i oblozi od gnolls da napada dnevno. Omg, I think I just reinvented sim city The real fun will be the quests that can be obtained only via player owned cites. Omg, mislim da sam samo reinvented SIM grad Prava zabava će biti zadataka koji se mogu dobiti samo putem igrač u vlasništvu navodi. Npc’s should frequent towns at will and perhaps if your city is large enough some important member of a distant land will come seeking aid from the guild of your city…………just some ideas, i think i could be somthing really cool and offer the opportunity to add the "surprises" we all look for._________________Just stop thinking…Trust me it will be fun. NPC-ima trebali česti u gradovima i možda će ako vaš grad dovoljno velik neke važne član daleke zemlje će se traže pomoć od ceh svog grada ... ... ... ... samo neke ideje, što sam mogao biti somthing stvarno kul i nude mogućnost da dodate "iznenađenja" svi mi izgledaju for._________________Just zaustaviti razmišljanje ... Vjerujte mi da će biti zabavno. Darniaq Serf Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 2 0 XP 0 0 0 0 0 View Inventory Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:38 pm     Post subject: Man. Darniaq kmet Pridružen: 21 Lipanj 2006 Postovi: 2 0 XP 0 0 0 0 0 Prikaži Inventar Poslano: Ned Lip 21, 2006 12:38 Post subject: Man. Really wish I knew about this place before now As it happens, [u]I agree with you on the concept of Player Politicians. Stvarno želimo znao sam o ovom mjestu prije nego što sada kao što se događa, [u] Slažem se s tobom o pojmu Političari Player. The problem with implementation, in my mind, is two fold: A lot of development effort spent on features relatively few would care about. Problem s provedbom, u moje srce, dva poklopac: A puno razvoj napor troši na osobine relativno malo bi stalo. This includes those interested in running large groups (few) and those interested in the goings-on of those running large groups (few ). To uključuje one zainteresirane za pokretanje velikih skupina (par) u zainteresirane i one koji su se događaju na one prikazuju velike grupe ( par). The guilds I ran and the SWG city I founded and co-ran seemed like full-time jobs for the few people interested and the rest I kept trying to get interested How often do city mayors in SWG truly turn over. U cehovi sam vodio i SWG grad sam osnovao i vodio co-činilo kao puno radno vrijeme za poslove na nekoliko ljudi zainteresiranih, a ostatak sam zadržao pokušava dobiti zainteresirani Koliko često radimo u gradu gradonačelnici SWG doista preokrenuti. I always felt like it was a semi-wasted role, something people did once a week when their votes came in and unlocked new abilites. Uvijek sam se osjećao kao da je polu-izgubiti ulogu, ljudi nešto učini jednom tjedno kad dođe u njihovu glasova i otključana novi abilites. I often wondered how many city groups just had someone make an alt to be the mayor for the few times the role was needed to be played. Ja često začudi koliko grad grupa je imala samo netko napravi Alt biti gradonačelnik jer je nekoliko puta u ulozi je potrebno kako bi se igrali. [...] [...]

12. RealityPrime » Metaverse 2.0 — Topology and Trust wrote on July 1st, 2007 at 7:16 am : RealityPrime »Metaverse 2.0 - Topologija i povjerenja napisao je July 1st, 2007 u 7:16 pm:

    [...] recent blog posts on the subject of Metaverse 2.0 (thanks, Stefan). [...] Nedavnom blogu na temu Metaverse 2.0 (hvala, Stefan). Start off with these three (Raph’s Koster & 3pointD & OgleEarth).First, for those who want to see Metaverse 2.0 (from here on, M2) as [...] Počnite sa ove tri (Raph's Koster & 3pointD & OgleEarth). Prvo, za one koji žele vidjeti Metaverse 2,0 (od ovdje, M2) kao [...]

1. CadetUmfer said on May 24th, 2006 at 1:55 pm : CadetUmfer rekao je na 24 Svibanj 2006 u 1:55 am:

   But what about those who would come to that stable and poison the horses so others couldn’t ride? A što je sa onima koji bi se na taj stabilne i otrov konje tako da drugima ne bi mogli voziti?

2. grrrrlz said on May 24th, 2006 at 2:58 pm : grrrrlz rekao je na 24 Svibanj 2006 u 2:58 am:

   Raph, you really need to get into SL, your mind is too big for playing games. Raph, ti zaista potrebno da se u SL, vaš um je prevelika za igranje igara. Do you want to change the world or sell sugar water for the rest of your life? Želite li promijeniti svijet ili prodavati šećer vode za ostatak svog života?

   As for the topic - the users in SL are doing far more ‘tending’ of the garden then Linden Lab. Što se tiče tema - za korisnike u SL rade daleko više "naginjanje" u vrtu potom lipa lab. Cory published some stats, millions of objects and lines of code are written and textures and sounds are uploaded every week by users, or some equally frightening stat. Cory objavio neke statistika, milijuni objekata i linija koda su pisane i textures i zvukovi su učitane svaki tjedan od strane korisnika, ili neke jednako zastrašujući Stat.

3. MikeRozak said on May 24th, 2006 at 3:16 pm : MikeRozak rekao je na 24 Svibanj 2006 u 3:16 am:

   Who governs is also a factor of how much each player pays. Tko upravlja je i čimbenik koliko svaki igrač plaća.

   Example: If I were to approach a VW company and offer $1M/year if they would name one of their kingdoms “Mike-land”, they’d probably say yes, much as football stadiums are named “[Insert company name here] stadium”. Primjer: Ako su na pribli `VW tvrtke i ponuditi $ 1M/year ako bi ime jednog od njihovih kraljevstava" Mike-zemlje ", oni bi vjerojatno reći da, koliko je nogometni stadioni se zove" [Umetni ime ovdje] stadion ".

   The owners know that having a “Mike-land” will upset some players and lose some business. Vlasnici znaju da s "Mike-zemlje", prevrnut će neke igrače i izgubiti neki posao. However, $1M/year is the revenue from about 7000 full-time players, so the proposition makes economic sense even if 6999 players leave in a huff. Međutim, $ 1M/year je prihod od oko 7000 stalno igrača, pa je prijedlog gospodarsko smislu čini čak i ako je 6999 igračima ostaviti u naljutiti.

   Instead of controlling the name, imagine that I wanted control over what the players could do in Mike-land. Umjesto kontrole ime, zamisliti da sam htjela kontrolu nad igračima što je mogao učiniti u Mike-zemlja. Maybe they would have to be my virtual serfs (for an hour of their play a week). Možda bi oni moraju biti moj virtualni serfs (za jedan sat njihovog igraju tjedan). Or, maybe they all have to shop in my virtual stores. Ili, možda oni svi imaju da moj virtualni dućan u trgovinama. Or listen to my virtual music. Ili slušajte moj virtualni glazbe. As long as only 6999 players are annoyed enough to leave, my laws will hold. Dokle god samo 6999 igrača su annoyed dovoljno da napuste, održat će moje zakone.

   Or, you can scale the fees down, and instead of an entire kingdom, it’s merely an inn, or a bridge… “Mike’s toll bridge. Ili, možete ljestvica je naknada dolje, i umjesto cijelog kraljevstva, to je tek jedna gostionica, ili je most ... "Mike's most cestarina. If you don’t pay, spend an hour walking to the nearest ford.” Ako ne plate, provesti sat vremena hodanja do najbliže Ford ".

   Or, you can look at this the other way… those players who don’t pay (ala Runescape) are forced to dwell in Mike-land and obey the rules of the tyrant. Ili, možete pogledati ovaj drugi način ... oni igrači koji ne plaćaju (ala Runescape) su prisiljavani da Mike-prebiva u zemlji i pokoravaju pravilima i tiranin. $1M a year pays for the bandwidth and lousy support of around 20,000 free players (to pick a round number). $ 1m godišnje plaća za širokopojasnu loš i podršku oko 20.000 slobodnog igrača (izabrati okrugli broj).

   Note: Mike-land could just as easily be called “Pizza-Hut land”, and you get advertising. Advertising isn’t the only reason though, since some players will be willing to pay more for special priviledges, especially when those priviledges give them a power trip or provide real ecomonic advantage. Napomena: Mike-zemlja mogla lako kao što se zove "pizza-koliba zemlju", i da dobijete oglašavanje. Oglašavanje nije jedini razlog ipak, budući da neki igrači će biti spremni platiti više za posebne privilegije, posebno kada one privilegije dati im vlast putovanje ili pružanja realnom ecomonic prednost. SL has already shown this, selling virtual real estate to players who want it for (a) personal reasons, or (b) money-making ventures. SL je već prikazana ova, prodaja nekretnina u virtualni igrači koji žele ga (a) osobnih razloga, ili (b) ulaganja novca odluka.

4. Matt Mihaly said on May 24th, 2006 at 3:33 pm : Matt Mihaly, rekao je na 24 Svibanj 2006 u 3:33 am:

   Raph wrote: Raph je napisao / la:
   
   Now, if a bunch of folks who liked horses got together, pooled cash to buy a stable, pooled cash to pay for feed, and declared themselves a nonprofit, maybe. Sad, ako gomila ljudi koji su voljeli konje dobio zajedno, udružuje novca za kupovinu stabilna, udružuje gotovinom za plaćanje hrane, a izjasnili su neprofitna, možda.
   
   As so often happens, text MMOs have already done this. Kao što se događa tako često, tekst MMOs su to već učinili. Batmud, for instance. Batmud, na primjer.

   –matt -Matirane

5. Raph said on May 24th, 2006 at 4:36 pm : Raph rekao je na 24 Svibanj 2006 u 4:36 am:

   But what about those who would come to that stable and poison the horses so others couldn’t ride? A što je sa onima koji bi se na taj stabilne i otrov konje tako da drugima ne bi mogli voziti?

   A good question. A dobro pitanje. That’s when the stable owner has to resort to the cops — aka, using the DMCA or the like to justify bringing in the FBI. To je kada je stabilan vlasnik je naselje na Drotovi - zvani, koristeći DMCA ili željeli opravdati dovođenja u FBI.

   If there IS no stable owner, in the case of the fully-empowered userbase, then I have no idea. Ako nema stabilnog vlasnika, u slučaju da je u potpunosti ovlaštena-userbase, ja nemam pojma.

   Raph, you really need to get into SL, your mind is too big for playing games. Raph, ti zaista potrebno da se u SL, vaš um je prevelika za igranje igara. Do you want to change the world or sell sugar water for the rest of your life? Želite li promijeniti svijet ili prodavati šećer vode za ostatak svog života?

   What if I think SL is too small? Što ako mislim SL je prenizak?
   What if I think that games can change the world? Što ako mislim da igre mogu promijeniti svijet?

   imagine that I wanted control over what the players could do in Mike-land zamisliti da sam htjela kontrolu nad igračima što je mogao učiniti u Mike-zemlja

   That would be what I meant by pockets of traditional administration… To bi značilo da ono što se po džepovima tradicionalne uprave ...

   As so often happens, text MMOs have already done this. Kao što se događa tako često, tekst MMOs su to već učinili. Batmud, for instance. Batmud, na primjer.

   Yeah, a bunch of muds effectively ran this way even if they didn’t officially declare as nonprofits. Da, gomila MUDS učinkovito vodio taj način, čak i ako nisu službeno deklarirati kao nonprofits. The license basically mandated it. Licenca osnovi ovlastili ga. But none of them were run the “distributed” way that I know of… even BatMUD still has one central server location and therefore still has the issue of a centralized authority.

6. Charles Ellis said on May 24th, 2006 at 4:54 pm :

   What about the issue of cloning horses? I know most of the major horse owners don’t look too kindly on clones of their horses, but what if they sanctioned it? What if they sold clones of their horses to be rented out by people who had their own stables already?

7. Rik said on May 24th, 2006 at 7:55 pm :

   Wouldn’t that look more like horse breeding and not horse cloning? In which case the horse owner would want “Stud Fees”.

   Seems to me in many cases the owner decided that the grievance is at least somewhat valid. In which case they might fix the shoes, or whatever it was. This is why when a MMORPG rep tells me something would be “Impossible to code” I tend to think they mean “would be impossible to get permission for that many hours of paid coding”. Too many times they have changed their tune when the renters made clear that they wanted this feature, and if not provided would shop around.

8. grrrrlz said on May 24th, 2006 at 11:32 pm :

   well, the internet was small at one point. SL might be small,but it is huge in impact (eg: businessweek) and this is where it’s all going one day.

   It’s sad to see people like you spending all your precious brain power on things like puzzle pirates, bejeweled, and hero’s quest.

9. Rik said on May 25th, 2006 at 12:19 am :

   Again: Games have value, read the book

   Further, I don’t care what magazines choose to talk about SL, TSO was on the cover of Newsweek not that long ago. Next week it will be John Travolta.

   I don’t really think the future of Virtual Worlds is a chaotic mess of people making up 3d objects for each other. There is no game, there is no theme, and there is no statement or idea. In many ways, there is no persistent world. But if you are having fun, that’s cool. I’m sure the data will be very useful.

   If you are really interested in spreading the word about your product, perhaps you could talk about your experiences there. I admit, most MMORPGs these days are centered on killing monsters and looting their bodies, it’s not a very high bar for your SL to be better than. So what do you actually do there that is better? I hear a lot of the untapped potential, and it’s there. I heard about the money, and I don’t think it’s there, at least not yet. And I hear about the booming sex-industry and quite frankly wonder if my wife would even let me visit you guys, if I was foolish enough to ask permission before downloading things.

10. Cael said on May 25th, 2006 at 1:15 am :

    Raph, please don’t do the SL thing.

    You’ll drown in a sea of bad pr0n and furries. Personally, i value your thoughts too much to see that happen, if i don’t always agree with them.

11. Sloejack said on May 25th, 2006 at 9:33 am :

    Now, if a bunch of folks who liked horses got together, pooled cash to buy a stable, pooled cash to pay for feed, and declared themselves a nonprofit, maybe.

    In my opinion, I think that only a minority of players would want to play in a user-governed world. MMO Games should be an escape from reality, or at worst reality-lite. If you’re (you meaning a player) trying to replicate the real world in a make believe setting perhaps you would be better served dressing up in garb and joining a local LARP. Personally as a player I’m happy to leave the management and maintinance of my virtual world to the respective companies that built them. I have no problem paying a monthly fee to someone who can provide a reasonable value in terms of entertainment to me.

12. StGabe said on May 25th, 2006 at 11:00 am :

    I’ve always thought that there was more to the central authority than just a producer-consumer relationship. At least in-so-far as “he who governs” or “he who develops” pertains to setting the expectations and limitations of the game world.

    There is a tension in gamers between the desire to personally have control over parts of the world and the (rational) fear of what may come of the world if other players have too much control. Having a central authority set expectations legitimizes a lot of the accomplishments in a world. I think that players, while they will often say exactly the opposite, tend to be most comfortable with worlds that are centrally governed because of this. With WoW the expectations, limitations and measures of success are all very clear because one central authority dictates them and I think this is attractive to players.

    If governance does pass on from developers to some other set of people I think that those groups who succeed will be those who tend to have some form of central governance themselves so that they can achieve coherent and consistent meanings.

13. StGabe said on May 25th, 2006 at 11:12 am :

    A few other thoughts…

    I think that it’s no mistake that MUD’s and such usually use the concept of “god” to refer to developers or administrators who have control the world and I don’t think this is just a conceit of those developers/administrators. It’s there because it works as a way to create stories, just as a dungeon master is the “god” in D&D. The dungeon master doesn’t have his position because he bought the dice and the books but because the role of a central storyteller is important. I think this, as much as economic relationships, defines the relationship between developers and players in modern MMO’s.

14. Michael Chui said on May 25th, 2006 at 1:34 pm :

    well, the internet was small at one point. SL might be small,but it is huge in impact (eg: businessweek) and this is where it’s all going one day.

    The future is in virtual worlds, yes. The future will not be in just SL. The reason the Internet boomed at all was because it could support it. SL can’t, and almost certainly won’t. It’sa good first step, and I think everyone should mess around with it, but to expect it to go the same way as the Internet is just kidding yourself.

    Raph, please don’t do the SL thing.

    Incidentally, for those of you who didn’t read the Thoughts on the Metaverse thread, Raph has already done the SL thing. =P

    I also think it’s worth trying to figure out how to properly run a P2P MMORPG. Maybe it’s completely impossible… who knows. I’ve come up with an idea or two, but nothing workable. (Hm… right now I’m thinking that perhaps they could rotate the role of server…) Why? Because it might actually be possible to come up with a world that doesn’t ever actually go down except under extreme circumstances. A P2P network is stronger than the client/server architecture all MMORPGs are based on, though they do unfortunately remain dependent on supernodes (unless they all acted as supernodes… *ponders more*)

    You know, an act passed by Congress is typically just changing lines of code… ^_^

    The dungeon master doesn’t have his position because he bought the dice and the books but because the role of a central storyteller is important.

    What if the developers don’t want to impose a story upon the players? As you become more worldly, part of the idea is to dissolve the idea of story and let the players come up with their own. I recognize that there’s value in remaining gamey, but what about when you don’t want that anymore?

15. Prokofy Neva said on May 25th, 2006 at 2:51 pm :

    Raph,

    I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to repudiate just about everything you say. Most of it is predicated on the notion that game devs and world gods are special New-Age priests of cyberspace endowed with greater powers than have ever been known to man. Well, kinda, but not really — cyberspace and everything in it not only can get unplugged, all it takes is one good power outage such as we had on the East Coast a few years ago to put that in perspective. The Catholic Church or the Soviet Empire never had those kind of power outage problems while they were in power.

    Seriously, while the power implied with server ownership and proprietary software and restrictive TOS (and its arbitrary and biased enforcement!) are all very real problems of over-reaching executive power, they aren’t new, and they aren’t special. Any large entity like a corporation or an empire or an organized religion has to have some legitimacy and some measure of public accountability. To the extent such entities are more accountable and transparent in our time, they are more or less successful, their business is going to go well or poorly.

    In the examples I’ve often given around Second Life, I don’t expect that when I call up Verizon, or Oxford health insurance, or my Congressional office, that I have to be filtered through a user’s group, vetted by a junior game dev, resmodded, inspected for my skill-up level, or admitted on sufferance. They are public entities, there’sa social contract involved in dealing with them and often a legal one, they have customer service representatives or legislative assistants and I make my complaints to them — they redress them. They don’t admonish me that they own all the DSL connection in the building, or own the permission system to authorize my surgery, or can hold up a bill in Congress until I express loyalty — that is, it’s not *suppose* to work that way, and to the extent that it does is the extent that we rebel. Most of the time, they play their limited role — and it is limited, by the rule of law, in ways that game devs seem to think doesn’t apply to them, or from which they are exempt by their specialness.

    So what, we’re supposed to roll over and become supine in a game world or a virtual world? Why? It’s not even the issue of “voting with your feet,” and it’s not even the question of “we’re helping to pay the game devs’ salary” which we can invoke in SL because we pay rent on the servers. It’s just normal public accountability. As I’ve often said, whatever the issue of subscription fees or “walled gardens,” the reason they call them massive multiplayer games is that they’re massive and multi-player and that means they are public, and involve the public. As much as the gaming and VW industry prefers to invoke the analogy of Hollywood and the entertainment business when conceiving of these masses (that gives them less accountability perhaps?), the analogy particularly for open-ended social worlds is something more like the responsibility that television and the print media have to viewers and readers.

    The public expects the news media to tell the truth, to publish the news without fear or favour, and in some communities even assign the media the social role of “afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted.” Some an awesome, mammoth project as building the Metaverse, which is to overarch us all and contain Everything, ought to do *at least* that much. Why give it all away to proprietary game companies, some of which don’t even have very good employee manuals or codes of behaviour? After all, a telephone company can be big and powerful and have lots of telephone poles and wires but if nobody wants to make a call to nobody else, it’s all pretty useless. Or to take a non-hypothetical example for RL entertainment, isn’t the reason we have less of these giant movie theaters with seating and ushers and popcorn makers because of videos you can rent and take home? Wouldn’t it be better for the guy with the short red jacket with the gold piping to become involved in helping people rent videos instead of having his role made obsolete?

    As for your complicated bits:

    > * Until software is perfect, you will still need devs. This is a difference from the real world: privileged operators who can alter “reality.”

    In a setting like SL, the residents themselves are creating and altering the reality to a significant extent. More and more, all the Lindens are doing is plunking down a server with a flat landscape and the leaser then textures it, terraforms it, puts builds on, etc. In a situation where the “value-add” is so largely coming from the subscriber, you really can’t keep talking about “privileged operators” in the same way, of course. Of course, the residents rely on the devs and still need them to transfer the access to the server and keep the server running. So? In RL, my landlord gives me the lease and the key and keeps the heat on and I pay him rent, he doesn’t piously tell me that he can “alter my reality” or consider himself “privileged” — of course he could shut off the hot water arbitrarily but then I have recourse to a lawsuit — and that brings me to the *only* thing that you can say about game devs: utter refusal to submit to the rule of law, utter arbitrariness. That is, sure, they have their TOS, but given that the TOS actually codifies lawlessness (*shudders*) by using such terminology as “any reason or no reason” (with a resonance far greater in a virtual world than in RL settings where exactly the same language is used), they set up a situation of permanent arbitrariness.

    And, I’m thinking the software doesn’t have to be *that perfect* or even open-sourced. I think that the weight of trying to run so large a world, or collectively, so many worlds, will compel game gods to delegate more. So far, they have a very brittle arrangement, they usher their own into a magic circle, into a company of those “with a high and lonely destiny” and they spend a lot of time keeping others out — and it keeps breaking, as often their own kind who are outside the magic circle, the hackers and griefers, wind up breaking these fragile barriers. So more and more they will have to make the mechanisms more flexible precisely to protect them from their own kind who are destructive.

    When the motor vehicle first began to be mass-produced, there were specialized mechanics, entire jobs built around just driving and maintaining these special devices. Today, you can change your own battery and your own oil. The same with the camera, where once a town photographer was the only one with the specialized device, today even a little kid can upload their cat’s picture from a digital camera to the Internet. Virtual worlds are virtual! So that ought to make their makers more vulnerable to the forces of the increasingly knowledgeable masses and even more accountable to the increasing demand to make the mechanisms more usable.

    > * Until hardware is fully distributed, you will still need a server location and server operators. This is also a difference from reality: your universe is dependent upon points of failure; the real world is not.

    Well, that’s not true — when all the bridges were closed on 9/11 for several days and no one could leave the city, the points of failure did fail. The difference with the real-world equivalent of server locations and operators — the people who operate bridges or tunnels or toll booths or trains or telephone lines — is that they feel an accountability to the public that apparently you can’t or won’t feel. You’re no different than an operator of a common carrier — a public commons — a line of communication, a bus, and while you’ve trained people to be more docile (you as a class of game gods), there’s no good reason why they should remain so, and if anything, they need to curb your tendency to authoritarianism more.

    Modes of travel and communication often start out privately developed and owned, but gradually the companies go public and in many countries even the government begins to fund them. Why would a system of virtual worlds and what sustains it be any different?

    There are towns and cities or even just universities increasingly taking it upon themselves to provide wireless access. More and more, there are public terminals for the Internet, for free or for a small cost. Isn’t it likely that in 25 years, we will take it as much for granted that we can plug into the Internet in many places as we take it now for granted that we can plug in a lamp or a tape recorder? And perhaps even take it for granted that some sort of basic virtual Metaverse will just be “there” like electricity is “there”?

    > * Until bandwidth and power and locations are free, you will still need money. This is also a difference; reality goes on whether we do anything or not. Virtual reality demands active contribution on someone’s part.

    Oh, a lot of money actually goes into keeping up the appearances of