What the Web and games have to teach each other Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge April 14th, 2006 (Visited 19284 times) Tags: 14. Travanj 2006 (posjetio 19284 puta) Tags:

One of the things that I have been thinking about a lot lately is the way that the current Web world (particularly the Web 2.0 stuff) and games seems to be ships passing in the night. Jedna od stvari koje sam razmišljati o puno u posljednje vrijeme je način na koji trenutni web svijeta (osobito Web 2.0 stvari) i igre Čini se da brodovi prolaze u noć. It’s led me to say a lot lately that the two groups have a lot to learn from one another. To je dovelo mi reći puno u posljednje vrijeme da se dvije skupine imaju puno naučiti jedni od drugih. Right now, with big dot-com folks like Joi Ito calling WoW “the new golf,” there’sa bit more awareness crossing the gap, but sometimes I wonder if the right lessons are bring learned. Trenutno, s velikim dot-com ukućani poput Joi Ito zovete Wow "je novi golf", nalazi se pomalo više svijesti prijelaz jaz, ali ponekad Pitam se, ako se donese pravo lekcije naučene.

So I thought I’d post my quick off-the-top-of-my-head list of stuff that each side should learn from the other. Tako sam mislio bih moj post brzo off-the-top-of-moja glava popis stvari koje svaka strana bi trebala naučiti od drugih.

Things that the Web folks can learn from games: Stvari koje web roditelji mogu naučiti iz igre:

• Interface. Games bring a lot of interface knowledge to the table; consider that most games offer far more complex environments to navigate, with far subtler information, than the typical webpage. Sučelja. Igre donijeti mnogo znanja sučelje na stolu, smatra da većina igara ponuditi daleko složeniji okruženja za navigaciju, s daleko suptilniji informacije, od tipičnih web stranicu. And yet, the current trend towards simpler interfaces in webpages has mostly meant simplifying actual capability. A ipak, trenutni trend prema jednostavnija sučelja na web stranice je uglavnom značio pojednostavljivanje stvarne sposobnosti.
• It’s the content, stupid. Far too many web services are features, not systems, and far too many of them are intended to grow via user content without being seeded with actual content. To je sadržaj, glupo. Daleki previše web usluge su funkcije, a ne sustava, i daleko previše od njih su namijenjeni za širenje putem korisničkog sadržaja bez seeded sa stvarnim sadržajem. The most robust user content communities are those built by fandoms, accreting like pearls around initial ideas. U većini robustan korisnika sadržaja zajednice su oni gradili su fandoms, accreting poput bisera oko početne ideje.
• Entertainment. Games are about fun; far too many web services are simply not fun. Zabava. Igre su sa zabavom, daleko previše web usluge su jednostavno nije zabavno. All activities can be improved by adding some fun factor : game-like qualities like collecting, ranking, and so on. Sve aktivnosti može biti poboljšan dodavanjem neke zabave faktor: igre-poput kvalitete kao što su prikupljanje, broj bodova, i tako dalje.
• Feedback. Games understand that everything is about feedback. Povratne informacije. Igre shvatiti da je sve o povratnoj informaciji. Websites often seem to forget, and I don’t know why. Web stranice često čini da zaboraviti, i ne znam zašto. This is getting better with AJAX, but there’s still a heck of a lot of forms of feedback that are missing, particularly persistent feedback. To je dobivanje bolje sa AJAX, ali je i dalje pakao, a mnogo oblika povratne informacije koje nedostaju, posebno uporni povratne informacije.
• Identity. One thing games typically do well is provide identity and context. Identiteta. Jedna stvar igre obično dobro je dati identitet i konteksta. I am not referring solely to avatars and characters, but also to themes. Nisam se odnose isključivo na avatars i znakova, ali i temama. Avatars and profiles, obviously, rock. Avatars i profila, očito, rock. Puzzle games don’t have avatars, and yet the context of Bookworm is memorable, and nobody is going to forget Zuma ’s weirdo frog. Puzzle igre nemaju avatars, i još kontekstu knjiški moljac je lako pamtljiva, a niko ne ide zaboraviti Zuma je weirdo žaba. Context matters. Kontekst pitanjima.
• Depth. Games often provide something that is simple on the face of it, yet reveals hidden unexpected depths. Dubina. Igre često dati nešto što je jednostavno na licu ga, ali neočekivano otkriva skrivene dubine. It’s implicit in the models games provide. Ovo je implicitan u igrama modeli osigurati. Yet often, a given web service (or even a new application or tool) has no hidden depths. Ipak, često je dao internet usluga (ili čak i novi program ili alat) nema skrivene dubine. It is what it is on the surface. To je ono što je na površini. There’s more enthusiasm for continuing to interact with software when it keeps revealing cool stuff to you. Postoji više entuzijazam za trajnu interakciju sa softverom kada je otkrila drži kul stvari za vas.

Things that the game guys can learn from the Web: Stvari koje se igra dečki mogu učiti s weba:

• Digital distribution. There aren’t any websites that you buy in a store. Digitalna distribucija. Nema web stranice koje ste kupiti u dućan. That’s because stores are an outmoded way to distribute digital data. To je zato što je zastario pohranjuje način za distribuciju digitalnih podataka. The prime reason to do it is because you want to retain control of the entire process from generation of data through distribution and onto the playback mechanism. Premijera razlog za to je zbog toga što želite zadržati kontrolu nad cijelom procesu od koljena podataka kroz distribuciju i na mehanizam reprodukcije. But bits, by and large, do want to be free. Ali bitova, tako i velikih, učiniti želite biti slobodni.
• Platforms. Web services are full of APIs that connect services and apps, magnify utility, and allow mashups and greater user content. Platforme. Web usluge su pune API-ja koji povezati usluge i funkcije, povećati korisnost, i dopustiti korisnik mashups i veći sadržaj. Games, even those which are designed for modding, don’t really embrace openness. Igre, čak i onima koji su dizajniran za modding, ne stvarno zagrljaju otvorenost. The industry is pretty determined to be a content creation industry, but games are not content, they are systems content lives in. U industriji je prilično utvrdio da se sadržaj stvaranje industrije, ali igre nisu sadržaja, oni su živi sustavi sadržaj rezervirati
• Everything is a database. The web is built on databases; games aren’t databases, they are models, but they are typically models that interact with databases. Sve je baza podataka. Web se temelji na bazama podataka; igre nisu baze podataka, oni su modeli, ali oni su obično modeli koji u interakciji s bazama podataka. Embracing your databaseness opens up all sorts of possibilities for how you interact with the data. Embracing Vaš databaseness otvara sve vrste mogućnosti kako ste u interakciji s podacima.
• Small pieces loosely joined. The web has figured out that bite-size chunks are what make sense for the largest amount of people. Usitno labavo pridružio. Web shvaćen je da zalogaj-size chunks su ono što imaju smisla za najveći iznos od ljudi. Sure, lots of bite-sized chunks aggregated into a site like Amazon or eBay makes something that’s big overall, but it’s got some advantages over linear structures: easy to jump in anywhere, easy to do things in different orders, easy to search and index, and easy to add to. Naravno, mnogo zalogaj veličine chunks spajaju na site kao Amazon eBay ili čini nešto što je velika sveukupno, ali je dobio neke prednosti nad linearne strukture: lako skočiti na bilo kojem mjestu, lako za napraviti stvari na različite naredbe, lako za pretraživanje i indeksiranje i lako dodati.
• KISS. Games are in love with overcomplication (particularly the “mainstream” games industry, which is anything but, targeted as it is at mostly hardcore gamers and hobbyists). KISS. Igre su u ljubavi s overcomplication (osobito u "mainstream" igrama industrije, što je ništa, ali, kao što je ciljano u pretežito hardcore gamere i hobbyists). Most websites do something highly targeted and simple, and do it well. Većina web-mjesta učinite nešto vrlo ciljano i jednostavna, i to dobro. Crazy game budgets are a symptom of a problem, not something to emulate. Ludi igre su proračuni simptom, a problem, a ne nešto imitirati.
• Client agnostic. Web guys rely on standards and assume that any damn browser might interact with their content. Client agnostički. Momci osloniti na web standardima i pretpostaviti da će bilo koji prokleti preglednik možda interakciju s njihovom sadržaju. They provide alternate versions for differing client platforms. Oni pružaju izmjenični verzije za različite platforme klijenta. Us, we often design completely new games for different platforms, then release them under the same name. Nama, često potpuno novi dizajn igara za različite platforme, a zatim ih pod istim imenom.

[?] [?]

Type in a relevant tag, and click the button, and help organize this blog's information. Upišite se u relevantne oznake, i kliknite na gumb, i pomoći organizirati ovaj blog je informacija.
[More Help] [Dodatna pomoć]

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site. Možete pratiti bilo koji odgovore na ovaj unos kroz RSS 2.0 feed. Odgovori su trenutno zatvorene, ali možete trackback sa svoje vlastite web lokacije.

58 Responses to “What the Web and games have to teach each other” 58 Odgovori na "Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge"

1. Faith wrote on April 15th, 2006 at 5:58 am : Vjera je pisao o 15. travanj 2006 u 5:58 pm:

   [...] Comments [...] Komentari [...] [...]

2. 3pointD.com wrote on April 15th, 2006 at 7:01 am : 3pointD.com napisao je April 15, 2006 u 7:01 pm:

   Coming: A Convergence of Game and Web Design? Dolazeći: A Približavanje igre i web dizajn?

   Raph Koster has a really interesting post up on his blog about what game-makers can learn from what’s going on on the Web these days, and what Web-programmers can learn from what’s going on in game development. Raph Koster je zaista zanimljivo post na blogu o tome što se njegova igra-makeri mogu naučiti od onog što se događa na internetu ovih dana, i što web-programeri mogu naučiti od onog što se događa u razvoju igre. Games have things to teach in… Igre su stvari učiti u ...

3. datacloud wrote on April 15th, 2006 at 9:34 am : datacloud napisao je April 15, 2006 u 9:34 pm:

   Web 2.0 vs./and Videogames Raph Koster lists some importantthings that web design could learn from video game design, and vice versa: Depth. Web 2.0 vs / i Videogames Raph Koster popisima importantthings da neke web dizajn mogli naučiti iz video igre dizajn, i obratno: Dubina. Games often provide something that is simple on the face of it, yet reveals hidden unexpected depths. Igre često dati nešto što je jednostavno na licu ga, ali neočekivano otkriva skrivene dubine. It’s implicit in the models games provide. Ovo je implicitan u igrama modeli osigurati. Yet often, a given web service (or even a new application or tool) has no hidden depths. Ipak, često je dao internet usluga (ili čak i novi program ili alat) nema skrivene dubine. It is To je

4. YakYak :: View topic - Game engines with all-procedural content wrote on April 15th, 2006 at 10:21 am : YakYak:: Pogledajte temu - Game motori sa sve proceduralne sadržajnim-napisao je na 15 Travanj 2006 u 10:21:

   [...] But the network side of an MMORPG is a frightening undertaking. [...] Ali mreže strane nekog MMORPG je zastrašujući pothvat. You have to deal with server load balancing, backup contingency, failure recovery, update scheduling, hack protection, cheat detection, and find a way to do it all without it costing too much. Morat ćete se baviti poslužitelju Load Balancing, rezervna mogućnost, oporavljanje od kvara, nadogradnja raspoređivanje, piskaralo zaštita, otkrivanje prijevara, i naći način da to napravite svi bez nje cijene previše. It’s starting to become a known problem, but noones got it right yet. To je polazna postati poznat problem, ali noones dobila je još pravo. That doesn’t sound very different from a large website, banking system or e-shopping system. To se ne čini vrlo različite od velikog web lokacije, bankarskog sustava ili e-shopping sistem. People know how to build those. Ljudi znaju kako izgraditi tim. Almost all of that (except cheat detection) is not app specific and is handled by off-the-shelf application servers. Gotovo svi koji (osim za otkrivanje prevara) nije app specifične i barata off-the-polica primjene poslužitelja. Raph Koster made an interesting post about the similarities of games and web devevelopment today. Raph Koster napravio zanimljiv post o sličnosti igre i web devevelopment danas. [...] [...]

5. datacloud wrote on April 15th, 2006 at 10:33 am : datacloud napisao na 15 Travanj 2006 u 10:33:

   Web 2.0 vs./and Videogames Raph Koster lists some importantthings that web design could learn from video game design, and vice versa: Depth. Web 2.0 vs / i Videogames Raph Koster popisima importantthings da neke web dizajn mogli naučiti iz video igre dizajn, i obratno: Dubina. Games often provide something that is simple on the face of it, yet reveals hidden unexpected depths. Igre često dati nešto što je jednostavno na licu ga, ali neočekivano otkriva skrivene dubine. It’s implicit in the models games provide. Ovo je implicitan u igrama modeli osigurati. Yet often, a given web service (or even a new application or tool) has no hidden depths. Ipak, često je dao internet usluga (ili čak i novi program ili alat) nema skrivene dubine. It is To je

6. 한RSS wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 12:58 pm : 한 RSS napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 12:58:

   [...] 총 15개  |  최종업데이트: 2006-04-18 05:56 function PrevPage(goto_bottom) { } function NextPage(goto_top) { } Gaming and Web Design Can Learn from Each Other Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 01:18 작성 | APIs, design, gaming Filed under: gaming, web 2.0Raph Koster has an interesting write up on what he thinks web designers could learn from game designers and vice versa.  There is so much development going on in both realms that the discussion seems quite useful to me.  Highlights include:Koster says web designers could learn from games that some of the most important features of a successful design are interface, pre-seeded content and identity.Game designers could learn from the Web 2.0 space about the importance of APIs, simplicity and much more.There’s good dialogue in the comments after Koster’s post, too.Found via one of my new favorite blogs, 3pointD.comPermalink | Email this | Linking Blogs | CommentsSponsored by: Userplane Apps: Live communication applications powering the world’s leading online communities. [...] 총 15 개 | 최종업 데이트: 2006-04-18 05:56 funkcija PrevPage (goto_bottom) () funkcija Nextpage (goto_top) () Igre i web dizajn mogu učiti jedni od drugih Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 01:18 작성 | API-ja, dizajn, igre dokumentirane pod: igre, internet 2.0Raph Koster je zanimljivo napisati o tome što on misli web dizajnera mogli naučiti iz igre dizajneri i obratno. Ima toliko razvoj događa u oba Realms da diskusija izgleda vrlo korisno za mene. Izdvajamo uključuju: Koster kaže web dizajnera mogli naučiti iz igre da su neke od najvažnijih značajki uspješnog dizajna su sučelja, pre-seeded sadržaja i identity.Game dizajneri mogli naučiti od web prostora oko 2,0 važnost-a, jednostavnost i još puno more.There je dobar dijalog u komentare nakon Koster post, too.Found putem jedan od mojih omiljenih blogova novih, 3pointD.comPermalink | Pošalji ovu | Povezivanje Blogs | CommentsSponsored la: Userplane Apps : Live komunikacijske programe napajanje vodećih svjetskih on-line zajednica. Danny Sullivan on 10 years of writing about search Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 01:02 작성 | history, search, web1.0, web2.0 Filed under: search enginesSearch engines are a rich, complicated and important part of the world these days.  That’s an understatement.  Danny Sullivan is widely regarded as one of the leading experts in the field.  Today marks 10 years since he began writing on the subject, and he’s got a good long overview posted at SearchEngineWatch.com- with a nod to the future.  It’s industry history, and well worth checking out.Permalink | Email this | Linking Blogs | CommentsSponsored by: Userplane Apps: Live communication applications powering the world’s leading online communities. Danny Sullivan na 10 godina pisanja o pretraživanju Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 01:02 작성 | povijest, pretraživanje, web1.0, web2.0 dokumentirane pod: pretraživanje enginesSearch motori su bogata, komplicirano i važan dio svijeta te dana. To je nepotpuno. Danny Sullivan je naširoko smatra jednim od vodećih stručnjaka na polju. maraka Danas 10 godina otkako je počeo pisanja na temu, a on je dobio dobar pregled objavljene na dugo SearchEngineWatch.com - s klimnuti na budućnost. To je povijest industrije, i vrijedi provjere out.Permalink | Pošalji ovu | Povezivanje Blogs | CommentsSponsored la: Userplane Apps: Live komunikacijske programe napajanje vodećih svjetskih on-line zajednica. Blogging could help prevent Alzheimer’s, expert says Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 00:12 작성 | Alzheimer’s, health Filed under: bloggingThis may be more funny than anything, and a statement about the place blogging is taking in larger cultural discussion.  USA Today has run an article on healthy habits that can keep the brain sharp and help prevent the onset of Alzheimer’s disease.  Included in the article:"Research on animals and humans suggests mentally challenging activities such as playing bridge, learning a new language or even blogging might help build new connections in the brain, says Molly Wagster at the National Institute on Aging, part of the National Institutes of Health."Seems true enough!  I wonder if blog reading has similar benefits?  If so, don’t feel obligated to thank me or anything.  Actual thanks to Bloggers Blog: Blogging the Blogosphere.Permalink | Email this | Linking Blogs | CommentsSponsored by: Userplane Apps: Live communication applications powering the world’s leading online communities. Video mogla spriječiti Alzheimerova, stručnjak kaže Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-18 00:12 작성 | Alzheimerova, zdravlje dokumentirane pod: bloggingThis svibanj biti više smiješno nego ništa, i izjavu o mjestu bloganje je uzimanje u većim kulturnim raspravu. USA Today ima pokrene rad na zdrave navike koje mogu čuvati mozak oštrim i spriječiti je napadaj i Alzheimerova bolest. uključeni u rad: "Istraživanje na životinjama i ljudima sugerira psihički izazovna aktivnosti kao što su igranje most, usvajanje novi jezik, pa čak i bloganje može pomoći izgraditi nove veze u mozgu, kaže Molly Wagster na nacionalni institut o Starenje, dijelu Nacionalnog instituta za zdravstvo. "čini dovoljno istinito! Pitam se, ako čitate blog ima slične pogodnosti? Ako je tako, ne Ne osjećaju obvezu da mi zahvaliti ili ništa. Stvarni zahvaljujući Blogeri Blog: Video je Blogosphere.Permalink | Pošalji ovu | Povezivanje Blogs | CommentsSponsored la: Userplane Apps: Live komunikacijske programe napajanje vodećih svjetskih on-line zajednica. Africa blogging round up Marshall Kirkpatrick 2006-04-17 23:39 작성 | Africa, blogging, Web2.0, Zimbabwe Filed under: nptech [...] Africi Maršalovi bloganje zaokružiti Kirkpatrick 작성 2006-04-17 23:39 | Croatia, bloganje, Web2.0, Zimbabve dokumentirane pod: nptech [...]

7. Gaming and Web Design Can Learn from Each Other - The Social Software Weblog wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 1:28 pm : Igre i web dizajn mogu učiti jedni od drugih - Socijalne Softver Weblog napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 1:28 am:

   [...] post, too.Found via one of my new favorite blogs, 3pointD.comPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments[0] [...] [...] Post, too.Found putem jedan od mojih omiljenih blogova novih, 3pointD.comPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [0] [...]

8. Soccer/CS » Blog Archive » Learning wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 1:30 pm : Nogomet / CS »Blog Arhiva» Učimo napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 1:30 am:

   [...] What the Web and games have to teach each other This entry was posted on Monday, 17 April 2006 at 16:27 and is filed under General, Technology. [...] Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge Ovaj unos je objavljena u ponedjeljak, 17. travnja 2006 u 16:27 i podneseno je pod Općenito, Tehnologija. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Možete pratiti bilo koji odgovore na ovaj unos kroz RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Možete ostaviti odgovor, ili trackback sa svoje vlastite web lokacije. [...] [...]

9. Technology wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 6:37 pm : Tehnologija napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 6:37 am:

   What the Web and game have to teach each other Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge

   Raph Koster posted an interesting post/article about what webdevs/webmaster and gamedevs/game publishers can learn from each other. Raph Koster posted zanimljiv post / članak o tome što webdevs / webmaster i gamedevs / igra izdavači mogu naučiti jedni od drugih.

   Quoting some of it here are the ff. Pozivaju neki od ovdje su ss.
   Web folks can learn from games: Web roditelji mogu naučiti iz igre:
   Interface. Sučelja. Games bring a lot of interface know… Igre donose puno znate sučelje ...

10. What the Web and games have to teach each other (Talk) wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 11:53 pm : Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge (Razgovor) napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 11:53 sati:

    [...] * Interface. [...] * Sučelja. Games bring a lot of interface knowledge to the table; consider that most games offer far more complex environments to navigate, with far subtler information, than the typical webpage. Igre donijeti mnogo znanja sučelje na stolu, smatra da većina igara ponuditi daleko složeniji okruženja za navigaciju, s daleko suptilniji informacije, od tipičnih web stranicu. And yet, the current trend towards simpler interfaces in webpages has mostly meant simplifying actual capability. A ipak, trenutni trend prema jednostavnija sučelja na web stranice je uglavnom značio pojednostavljivanje stvarne sposobnosti. * It’s the content, stupid. * To je sadržaj, glupo. Far too many web services are features, not systems, and far too many of them are intended to grow via user content without being seeded with actual content. Daleko previše web usluge su funkcije, a ne sustava, i daleko previše od njih su namijenjeni za širenje putem korisničkog sadržaja bez seeded sa stvarnim sadržajem. The most robust user content communities are those built by fandoms, accreting like pearls around initial ideas. U većini robustan korisnika sadržaja zajednice su oni gradili su fandoms, accreting poput bisera oko početne ideje. * Entertainment. * Zabava. Games are about fun; far too many web services are simply not fun. Igre su sa zabavom, daleko previše web usluge su jednostavno nije zabavno. All activities can be improved by adding some fun factor: game-like qualities like collecting, ranking, and so on. Sve aktivnosti može biti poboljšan dodavanjem neke zabave faktor: igre-poput kvalitete kao što su prikupljanje, broj bodova, i tako dalje. * Feedback. * Povratne informacije. Games understand that everything is about feedback. Igre shvatiti da je sve o povratnoj informaciji. Websites often seem to forget, and I don’t know why. Web stranice često čini da zaboraviti, i ne znam zašto. This is getting better with AJAX, but there’s still a heck of a lot of forms of feedback that are missing, particularly persistent feedback…. To je dobivanje bolje sa AJAX, ali je i dalje pakao, a mnogo oblika povratne informacije koje nedostaju, posebno uporni komentar .... Source: Raph’s Website [...] Izvor: Raph's Web stranica [...]

11. View Message wrote on April 18th, 2006 at 8:10 am : Prikaži poruku napisao na 18 Travanj 2006 u 8:10 pm:

    [...] http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/04/14/438/ [...] [...] Http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/04/14/438/ [...]

12. ScreenBurn Beta Festival » Game Developers and Web Designers: Separated at Birth wrote on April 18th, 2006 at 9:11 am : ScreenBurn Beta festival »Game programere i web dizajneri: Odvojena pri porodu je pisao o 18. travanj 2006 u 9:11 pm:

    [...] As part of the SXSW Interactive Festival, ScreenBurn is living testimony that the video game industry and the world of new media technology have a lot more in common than initially perceived. [...] Kao dio na SXSW Interactive Festival, ScreenBurn živi svjedočanstvo da je video igra industrije i svijet novih tehnologija mediji imaju puno više zajedničkog nego u početku zapažena. But, don’t just take our word for this idea. Ali, ne samo uzimati naša riječ za ovu ideju. Famed gamer Raph Koster posts a very intriguing essay on his blog titled “What the Web and games have to teach each other”. Čuveni Gamer Raph Koster komentara vrlo intrigantna esej na svom blogu pod nazivom "Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge". Amongst the many valuable ideas Koster talks about here is that game developers too often make their product much too complex for the majority of users: “Games are in love with overcomplication (particularly the “mainstream” games industry, which is anything but, targeted as it is at mostly hardcore gamers and hobbyists). Među mnogim vrijednim razgovora o idejama Koster ovdje je da igra programere prečesto bi im puno previše složen proizvod za većinu korisnika: "Igre su u ljubavi s overcomplication (osobito u" mainstream "igrama industrije, što je ništa, ali, kao ciljane To je uglavnom na hardcore gamere i hobbyists). Most websites do something highly targeted and simple, and do it well. Većina web-mjesta učinite nešto vrlo ciljano i jednostavna, i to dobro. Crazy game budgets are a symptom of a problem, not something to emulate.” [...] Ludi igre su proračuni simptom, a problem, a ne nešto imitirati. "[...]

13. Just Bru wrote on April 21st, 2006 at 4:33 pm : Samo BRU napisao na 21 Travanj 2006 u 4:33 am:

    §What the Web and games have to teach each other § Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge

14. teach4learning - Links - LinksToSort wrote on April 23rd, 2006 at 5:59 am : teach4learning - Linkovi - LinksToSort napisao na 23 Travanj 2006 u 5:59 pm:

    [...] Links To Sort Games and websites [...] [...] Linkovi Za Poredaj Igre i web stranica [...]

15. Continuity » Blog Archive » What the Web and games have to teach each other wrote on April 24th, 2006 at 9:25 am : Kontinuitet »Blog Archive» Što je Web i igre moraju učiti svaki drugi pisao o 24. travanj 2006 u 9:25 pm:

    [...] Der Artikel “What the Web and games have to teach each other” in Raph Koster’s Weblog spricht einige dieser Diskussionpunkte im Vergleich Webdesign <> Gamedesign an. [...] Der Artikel "Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge" u Raph Koster's Weblog spricht einige dieser Diskussionpunkte im Vergleich Webdesign <> Gamedesign an. [...] [...]

16. reBang weblog » Blog Archive » Videogames, the Web and PLM wrote on April 24th, 2006 at 6:03 pm : reBang weblog »Blog Arhiva» Videogames, web i PLM napisao na 24 Travanj 2006 u 6:03 am:

    [...] Raph Koster has posted something of interest, a post titled “What the Web and games have to teach each other” (Link). [...] Raph Koster je objavljeno nešto od interesa, post pod nazivom "Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge" (link). Interesting to me especially given my post yesterday (reLink) which makes mention of both in their relation to Product Lifecycle Management software (PLM). Interesantno mi posebno s obzirom jučerašnjeg moj post (reLink) što čini spomenuti kako u odnosu na njihove Product Lifecycle Management Software (PLM). [...] [...]

17. Guardian Unlimited: Gamesblog wrote on April 25th, 2006 at 1:05 am : Guardian Unlimited: Gamesblog napisao na 25 Travanj 2006 u 1:05 pm:

    Duke Nukem sheds light on brain - Cognitive mapping assisted by both gaming and sleep. Duke Nukem baca svjetlo na mozgu - Kognitivna kartiranje uz pomoć oba igre i spavati. via BBC… Mom, can you power-level my avatar for me? preko BBC ... Mama, mogu li vlast na razini moje avatar za mene? - A fascinating the social phenomenon: the digital soccer mom. - A fascinantan je društveni fenomen: digitalni nogomet mama. Via Joystiq…What the Web and games have to teach each other - Web 2.0 meets gaming in Raph Koster’s mind… Dawn Market - A MMORPG Marketplace. Preko Joystiq ... Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni drugima - Web 2.0 zadovoljava igara u Raph Koster mislima ... Dawn tržišta - A MMORPG Marketplace. Kotaku calls it the Craigslist for online games… I Was an Online Mother - The modern way for men to experience pregnancy is in virtual world Second Life, says SF Kotaku poziva ga na Craigslist za online igre ... bio sam online Majka - Suvremeni način za ljude da se iskustvo trudnoće je u virtualnom svijetu Second Life, kaže SF

18. Continuity wrote on May 13th, 2006 at 8:36 am : Kontinuitet pisao dana May 13th, 2006 u 8:36 pm:

    [...] Der Artikel “What the Web and games have to teach each other” in Raph Koster’s Weblog spricht einige dieser Diskussionpunkte im Vergleich Webdesign <> Gamedesign an. [...] Der Artikel "Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge" u Raph Koster's Weblog spricht einige dieser Diskussionpunkte im Vergleich Webdesign <> Gamedesign an. [...] [...]

19. 聊网斋 | About Internet wrote on May 17th, 2006 at 9:54 pm : 聊网斋| About Internet napisao na 17 Svibanj 2006 u 9:54 am:

    [...] 游戏和Web2.0（特别是社区）的融合借鉴是未来的发展趋势，未来成功的社区是游戏性方面占优势的社区。人生不过两种状态，有趣和无趣。我说的游戏性，是指这个社区能够以愉快的方式让人摆脱无聊的状态。王小波至死追求的目标是思维的乐趣，更多的人追求的是低层次的有趣。这是从需求层次来说的，和低级趣味无关。游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈，对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章What the Web and games have to teach each other，写的很精彩。在此简单的谈谈自己的观察。现在很多社区和网站的界面设计都在学习游戏运营公司。观察大多数的游戏官方网站，会发现注册步骤被放在首要位置，攻略等也会放在显眼的位置。让我们再看看Myspace，看看碰碰，看看粉丝，甚至Yahoo和QQ，风格越来越趋向和重视对用户的功能引导与使用帮助。游戏运营卖的是体验和服务，Web2.0同样是以体验和服务为主。这不同于Web1.0时代的媒体化运营，针对做服务和做媒体，麦田好象谈过要不要首页的问题。其实，做社区能从游戏运营方面借鉴的东西太多了。在游戏领域，圈子里的人都知道，真正的老大不是盛大也不是九城，而是网易。大话西游和梦幻西游出乎想象的成功。曾经研究过网易的推广体系，但随着观察的深入我发现它的成功不能简单的归功于其传销式的网吧推广，在我看来，它的游戏化运营理念已经深入到公司的整体运营中。拿这次世界杯来讲，网易做了一个世界杯观方站活动，这个活动关键的创意不在于用户和网站之间的互动，也不是它的枪稿所说的什么扯淡的Web3.0。我认为它的创意精髓是用户之间的互动，它采用了游戏中的组队策略，将参赛角色进行划分，自由组队搭配，并为用户提供一个组队的交流招募平台。网易通过类似许多游戏化的活动策划，来维持并提升网站和社区的黏度。Web2.0注重的是个性体验与交流互动，注重的是用户的参与感。成功的游戏运营在这方面积累了丰富的经验，值得我们观察学习。Trackback: http://tb.donews.net/TrackBack.aspx?PostId=874314 [点击此处收藏本文]   发表于 2006年05月18日 10:53 AM [...] [...]游戏和Web2.0 (特别是社区)的融合借鉴是未来的发展趋势,未来成功的社区是游戏性方面占优势的社区.人生不过两种状态,有趣和无趣.我说的游戏性,是指这个社区能够以愉快的方式让人摆脱无聊的状态.王小波至死追求的目标是思维的乐趣,更多的人追求的是低层次的有趣.这是从需求层次来说的,和低级趣味无关.游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈,对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge,写的很精彩.在此简单的谈谈自己的观察.现在很多社区和网站的界面设计都在学习游戏运营公司.观察大多数的游戏官方网站,会发现注册步骤被放在首要位置,攻略等也会放在显眼的位置.让我们再看看MySpace,看看碰碰,看看粉丝,甚至Yahoo和QQ,风格越来越趋向和重视对用户的功能引导与使用帮助.游戏运营卖的是体验和服务, Web2.0同样是以体验和服务为主.这不同于Web1.0时代的媒体化运营,针对做服务和做媒体,麦田好象谈过要不要首页的问题.其实,做社区能从游戏运营方面借鉴的东西太多了.在游戏领域,圈子里的人都知道,真正的老大不是盛大也不是九城,而是网易.大话西游和梦幻西游出乎想象的成功.曾经研究过网易的推广体系,但随着观察的深入我发现它的成功不能简单的归功于其传销式的网吧推广,在我看来,它的游戏化运营理念已经深入到公司的整体运营中.拿这次世界杯来讲,网易做了一个世界杯观方站活动,这个活动关键的创意不在于用户和网站之间的互动,也不是它的枪稿所说的什么扯淡的Web3.0 .我认为它的创意精髓是用户之间的互动,它采用了游戏中的组队策略,将参赛角色进行划分,自由组队搭配,并为用户提供一个组队的交流招募平台.网易通过类似许多游戏化的活动策划,来维持并提升网站和社区的黏度. Web2.0注重的是个性体验与交流互动,注重的是用户的参与感.成功的游戏运营在这方面积累了丰富的经验,值得我们观察学习. Trackback: http://tb.donews.net/TrackBack.aspx?PostId=874314 [点击此处收藏本文]发表于2006年05月18日10:53 [...]

20. Lisoleg - Í wrote on May 18th, 2006 at 7:13 pm : Lisoleg - napisao sam na 18 Svibanj 2006 u 7:13 am:

    [...] ʵ, ˵ Ϸ ҵ Щ Ä,Ҳ ¹ ҵ ñ, «3D,AI,UI ȵȼ Ϸ ҵ õ dz ̽ ʵ ù, شٽ ˼ ķ չ. ںͻ Ĺ ϵ, ر Çweb 2.0, ô ĸ î,Google maps μ ͼƬ Ä,Flash ķdz£cool Ľ ȵÈ, кܶ Ϸ õ. ע ѧ.. ѧ Úweb 2.0 е Ӧ Ö Ϸ Ѿ Ã… ƪ һ С á;:http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/04/14/438/What the Web and games have to teach each other [...] [...] ʵ, ˵ Ϸ ҵЩÄ, Ҳ ³ ҵ N, «3D, AI, UI ȵ ȼ Ϸ ҵõdz̽ ʵ U, شٽ ˼ K չ. ں ͻ Ĺε, ر Çweb 2.0 , Ôĸî Google mapsμ ͼ ƬÄ, Flashķdz £ coolĽ ȵ E, к ܶ O Ϸ. ע ѧ .. ѧÚweb 2.0 еӦÃ-Ϸ Ѿà ... ƪһСá;: http://www.raphkoster. com/2006/04/14/438/What Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge [...]

21. The Red Bull Diary wrote on May 19th, 2006 at 7:19 pm : The Red Bull Dnevnik napisao je na 19. svibnja 2006 u 7:19 am:

    Ralph Koster has a cool article on his blog calledWhat the Web and Games have to Teach Each Other. Ralph Koster ima kul članak na svom blogu calledWhat Web i igre su učiti jedni druge. As a web guy and a game guy, I found this very interesting and would like to expand on the topic a bit, but no time to do so now. Kao web tip i tip igre, otkrio sam vrlo zanimljiv i želite proširiti na temu malo, ali ne i vrijeme da to učinite sada. It’ll just have to wait for a future post. To ćete morati pričekati za budućnost post.

22. 方少网摘 wrote on May 19th, 2006 at 10:32 pm : 方少网摘 pisao na 19. svibnja 2006 u 10:32 sati:

    [转]一个学机械的毕业生令我心情不能平静的回帖 程序员的工作What the Web and games have to teach each other 两款新游戏：Spore和Second Life 听课堂报告：virtual community的研究取向 海外VC新一轮淘金中国 去年投资规模达40亿美元 我的幻水观 Web2.0的技术本质[IMG ][IMG ] [转]一个学机械的毕业生令我心情不能平静的回帖程序员的工作Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge两款新游戏: spore和Second Life听课堂报告: virtualnu zajednicu的研究取向海外BO新一轮淘金中国去年投资规模达40亿美元我的幻水观Web2.0的技术本质[IMG] [IMG]

23. 方少网摘 wrote on May 19th, 2006 at 10:32 pm : 方少网摘 pisao na 19. svibnja 2006 u 10:32 sati:

    [转]一个学机械的毕业生令我心情不能平静的回帖 程序员的工作What the Web and games have to teach each other 两款新游戏：Spore和Second Life 听课堂报告：virtual community的研究取向 海外VC新一轮淘金中国 去年投资规模达40亿美元 我的幻水观 Web2.0的技术本质[IMG ][IMG ] [转]一个学机械的毕业生令我心情不能平静的回帖程序员的工作Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge两款新游戏: spore和Second Life听课堂报告: virtualnu zajednicu的研究取向海外BO新一轮淘金中国去年投资规模达40亿美元我的幻水观Web2.0的技术本质[IMG] [IMG]

24. LiveMarks wrote on May 20th, 2006 at 5:58 am : LiveMarks napisao na 20 Svibanj 2006 u 5:58 pm:

    Raph’s Website » What the Web and games have to teach each other .oO Raph's Web stranica »Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge. OO

25. æ : Ӫ Ϸһ öWeb2.0 ø wrote on May 23rd, 2006 at 7:01 am : Æ: Ӫ Ϸ һöWeb2.0ø napisao na 23 Svibanj 2006 u 7:01 pm:

    [...] .DoNotDisplay { display: none; } Ӫ Ϸһ öWeb2.0 ø[ת ù] ת Ô http://blog.donews.com/zhangxiang/archive/2006/05/18/874314.aspx Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ر ںϽ δ ķ չ ƣ δ ɹ Ϸ Է ռ Ƶ ״̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ָ ܹ ķ ʽ ˰ ĵ ״̬ С ׷ Ŀ ˼ά Ȥ ׷ ǵͲ ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ ģ ͵ͼ Ȥζ ޹ء£ Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ںϽ ʱ ޷ ȥ̸ Դ˸ Ȥ һ Ҫ ƪ ÂWhat the Web and games have to teach each other д ĺܾ ʡ£ ڴ˼򵥵 ̸̸ Լ Ĺ۲졣 ںܶ վ Ľ ƶ ѧϰ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ ۲ Ϸ ٷ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ 豻 Ҫλ ã Ե Ҳ ۵ λ á ٿ ´Myspace ˿ ÁYahoo ÍQQ Խ Խ Ӷ û Ĺ ʹ ð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬Web2.0ͬ ͷ Ϊ ⲻͬ ÚWeb1.0ʱ ý 廯 Ӫ ý 壬 ̸ Ҫ Ҫ ҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ Ӫ Ķ ̫ ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ ֪ ϴ ʢ Ҳ Ǿųǣ ס κ λ γ ijɹ о ׵ ƹ ϵ Ź۲ ҷ ijɹ ܼ򵥵Ĺ鹦 䴫 ʽ ƹ㣬 ҿ Ϸ Ӫ Ѿ 뵽 ˾ Ӫ С 籭 һ 籭 ۷ վ   ؼ Ĵ ⲻ û վ֮ Ļ Ҳ ǹ ˵ ʲô ÄWeb3.0 Ϊ Ĵ ⾫ û ֮ Ļ Ϸ е Ӳ ԣ ɫ л ֣ Ӵ 䣬 Ϊ û ṩһ ӵĽ ļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ Ļ ߻ ά ֲ վ ȡ£ Web2.0ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص û IJ С ɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ḻ ľ 飬ֵ ǹ۲ ѧϰ £ ǩ ۲ì  web2.0   æ Ú 2006 ê5 Â23 Õ 22:58 | Ð 0 ƪ Û 0 ε ÷ [...] [...]. DoNotDisplay (display: none;) Ӫ Ϸ һöWeb2.0ø [ת U] ת Ô http://blog.donews.com/zhangxiang / archive/2006/05/18/874314.aspx Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 رں Ͻ δķ չ Ƣδɹ Ϸ Էռ Z " ̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ܹ K ʽ ˰ J "̬С ׷ l ˼ ά Ȥ ׷ ǵ Ͳ ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ G ͵ ͼ Ȥ ζ ޹ ء £ Ϸ ÍWeb2. 0 ں Ͻ ʱ ޷ ȥ ̸ Դ ˸ Ȥ һҪ ƪÂWhat Web i igre morati učiti svaku otherдĺ ܾ ʡ £ ڴ ˼ 򵥵 ̸̸ Լ L2 졣 ں ܶ Վ Ľƶѧκ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ 2 Ϸ ۇٴ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ豻Ҫλã Ե Ҳ5λá ٿ ' MySpace ˿ ÁYahooÍQQ ԽԽ Ӷ û Ĺð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬ Web2.0 ͬ Ͷ Ϊ ⲻ ͬ ÚWeb1.0 ʱ y廯Ӫý壬̸ҪҪҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ Ӫ K ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ Θ ʢҲǾųǣ ס κλγijɹ О ׵ ƹεŹ2ҷijɹ ܼ 򵥵 Å鹦䴫ʽ ƹ㣬ҿ Ϸ ӪѾ 뵽 ˾ ӪС籭һ籭7 վ   ؼ J ⲻ û վ ĻҲ ǹ ˵ ʲ ôÄWeb3.0ΪĴ ⾫ ul. Ϸ еӲ ԣ ɫлӴ䣬Ϊû ṩһӵĽļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ l  ߻ ά Վ ȡ £ Web2.0 ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص û IJСɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ LL飬ǹ 2ѧκ £ ǩ2ì web2.0 æ Ú 2006ê5Â23Õ 22:58 | Ð 0 ƪÛ 0ε ÷ [...]

26. Ӫ Ϸһ öWeb2.0 ø [ Ѷ Í] wrote on June 2nd, 2006 at 4:06 am : Ӫ Ϸ һöWeb2.0ø [ѶÍ] napisao je na 2. lipanj 2006 u 4:06 pm:

    [...] Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ںϽ ʱ ޷ ȥ̸ Դ˸ Ȥ һ Ҫ ƪ ÂWhat the Web and games have to teach each other д ĺܾ ʡ£ [...] [...] Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ں Ͻ ʱ ޷ ȥ ̸ Դ ˸ Ȥ ҺҪƪÂWhat Web i igre morati učiti svaku otherдĺ ܾ ʡ £ [...]

27. Ӫ Ϸһ öWeb2.0 ø _Web2.0 վ бí_web2list.cn wrote on June 4th, 2006 at 8:52 am : Ӫ Ϸ һöWeb2.0ø _Web2.0 վ бí_web2list.cn napisao na 4. lipanj 2006 u 8:52 pm:

    [...] Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ر ںϽ δ ķ չ ƣ δ ɹ Ϸ Է ռ Ƶ ״̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ָ ܹ ķ ʽ ˰ ĵ ״̬ С ׷ Ŀ ˼ά Ȥ ׷ ǵͲ ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ ģ ͵ͼ Ȥζ ޹ء£ Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ںϽ ʱ ޷ ȥ̸ Դ˸ Ȥ һ Ҫ ƪ ÂWhat the Web and games have to teach each other д ĺܾ ʡ£ ڴ˼򵥵 ̸̸ Լ Ĺ۲졣 ںܶ վ Ľ ƶ ѧϰ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ ۲ Ϸ ٷ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ 豻 Ҫλ ã Ե Ҳ ۵ λ á ٿ ´Myspace ˿ ÁYahoo ÍQQ Խ Խ Ӷ û Ĺ ʹ ð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬Web2.0ͬ ͷ Ϊ ⲻͬ ÚWeb1.0ʱ ý 廯 Ӫ ý 壬 ̸ Ҫ Ҫ ҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ Ӫ Ķ ̫ ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ ֪ ϴ ʢ Ҳ Ǿųǣ ס κ λ γ ijɹ о ׵ ƹ ϵ Ź۲ ҷ ijɹ ܼ򵥵Ĺ鹦 䴫 ʽ ƹ㣬 ҿ Ϸ Ӫ Ѿ 뵽 ˾ Ӫ С 籭 һ 籭 ۷ վ   ؼ Ĵ ⲻ û վ֮ Ļ Ҳ ǹ ˵ ʲô ÄWeb3.0 Ϊ Ĵ ⾫ û ֮ Ļ Ϸ е Ӳ ԣ ɫ л ֣ Ӵ 䣬 Ϊ û ṩһ ӵĽ ļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ Ļ ߻ ά ֲ վ ȡ£ Web2.0ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص û IJ С ɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ḻ ľ 飬ֵ ǹ۲ ѧϰ £ [...] [...] Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 رں Ͻ δķ չ ƣδ ɹ Ϸ Էռ Z "̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ܹ K ʽ ˰ J "̬С ׷ l ˼ ά Ȥ ׷ ǵ Ͳ Ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ G ͵ ͼ Ȥ ζ ޹ ء £ Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ں Ͻ ʱ ޷ ȥ ̸ Դ ˸ Ȥ һҪƪ ÂWhat Web i igre morati učiti svaku otherдĺ ܾ ʡ £ ڴ ˼ 򵥵 ̸̸ Լ L2 졣 ں ܶ վ l Ƶѧκ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ 2 Ϸ ۇٴ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ豻Ҫλã Ե Ҳ5λá ٿ 'MySpace ˿ ÁYahooÍQQ ԽԽ Ӷ ul. Ð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬ Web2.0 ͬ ͷ Ϊ ⲻ ͬ ÚWeb1.0 ʱ y廯Ӫý壬̸ҪҪҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ ӪĶ̫ ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ ΘʢҲ Ǿųǣ ס κλγijɹо ׵ ƹεŹ2ҷijɹ ܼ 򵥵 Å鹦䴫ʽ Ƹ㣬ҿ Ϸ ӪѾ 뵽 ˾ ӪС籭һ籭7 վ   ؼ J ⲻ û վ ĻҲ ǹ ˵ ʲ ô ÄWeb3.0ΪĴ ⾫ ul. Ϸ е Ӳ ԣ ɫлӴ䣬ΪûṩһӵĽ Ļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ l  ߻ ά վ ȡ £ Web2.0 ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص ûIJС ɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ LL飬ǹ 2ѧκ £ [...]

28. Target Your News wrote on June 14th, 2006 at 10:43 pm : Usmjerite svoj Vijest napisao na 14. lipanj 2006 u 10:43 sati:

    [...] The better you target your news, the greater the number of interested people who will see it. [...] Ti je bolje ciljati Vaše vijesti, veći broj zainteresiranih ljudi koji će je vidjeti. Learn More (it’s free!) Logged in as demo. Saznajte više (to je besplatno!) Prijavljeni kao demo. Login Feedback Discussion - Register (no email required) - del.icio.us demo accounts - CleverCS - Web 2.0 Everyone’sSubmitted Links (2369) My TargetedLinks (17) My TargetingLinks (59) My LikedLinks (99) My DislikedLinks (9) My SubmittedLinks (27) Link Surfing Mode What the Web and games have to teach each other - http://www.raphkoster.com/.. . Login Feedback Discussion - registar (ne e-mail required) - del.icio.us demo računa - CleverCS - Web 2.0 Everyone'sSubmitted Linkovi (2369) My TargetedLinks (17) Moj TargetingLinks (59) Moj LikedLinks (99) Moj DislikedLinks (9) Moj SubmittedLinks (27) Link Surfanje Moda Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni drugima - http://www.raphkoster.com/ ... web2.0, games, webdesign, web, interaction_design, information_architecture, ia, game, design more like this / fewer like this - family - targeting - reply 0 points, submitted 47 days ago Things that the Web folks can learn from games –jrt [...] web2.0, igre, webdesign, internet, interaction_design, information_architecture, IA, igra, kao što je ovaj dizajn više / manje ovako - obitelj - ciljanje - odgovor 0 bodova, podnosi 47 dana prije stvari koje web roditelji mogu naučiti iz igre JRT - [...]

29. 象运营游戏一样做Web2.0社区 - 聊网斋 | About Internet wrote on June 25th, 2006 at 8:15 am : 象运营游戏一样做Web2.0社区-聊网斋| About Internet pisao na 25. lipanj 2006 u 8:15 pm:

    [...] 游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈，对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章What the Web and games have to teach each other，写的很精彩。 [...] [...]游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈,对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge,写的很精彩. [...]

30. Ӫ Ϸһ öWeb2.0 ø - ֵ۹ú- Ѻ Í wrote on July 20th, 2006 at 9:55 pm : Ӫ Ϸ һöWeb2.0ø-9ú-ѺÍ pisao na 20. srpnja 2006 u 9:55 am:

    [...] ӵ ַ ºhttp://zuolo.blog.sohu.com/3390594.html ƴ˵ ַ #rec{border:1px solid #ccc;margin:10px auto 10px;line-height:150%;padding:10px!important;padding:10px 10px 0px;width:670px;} #rec ul{float:left;padding:0px;margin:0px 10px 0px 0px;list-style:none;overflow:hidden;} #rec ul li{white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;} #rec ul .recTitle{margin-bottom:5px;} #rec .recBlog{width:60px;border-right:1px solid #ccc;} #rec .recGroup{width:80px;border-right:1px solid #ccc;} #rec .recArt{width:480px;} #rec .recArt li{float:left;width:240px;} #rec .recArt .recTitle{width:480px;} [...] [...] Ӵ º http://zuolo.blog.sohu.com/3390594.html ƴ ˵ # rec (border: 1px solid # CCC; margina: 10px auto 10px; line-visina: 150%; padding: 10px! važno; padding: 10px 10px 0px; width: 670px;) # (rec ul. plovak: lijevo; padding: 0px; margina: 0px 10px 0px 0px; list-style: none; preliti : skriveni;) # (rec ul. Li-bijeli prostor: nowrap; overflow: skriveni;) # ul. rec. recTitle (margina-bottom: 5px;) # rec. recBlog (width: 60px; border-right: 1px solid # CCC ;) # Rec. RecGroup (width: 80px; border-right: 1px solid # CCC;) # rec. RecArt (width: 480px;) # rec. RecArt Li (plovak: lijevo, širina: 240px;) # rec. RecArt . recTitle (width: 480px;) [...]

31. 聊网斋 | About Internet» Blog Archive » 象运营游戏一样做Web2.0社区 wrote on August 22nd, 2006 at 9:51 am : 聊网斋| About Internet »Blog Arhiva»象运营游戏一样做Web2.0社区 pisao na 22. kolovoz 2006 u 9:51 pm:

    [...] 游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈，对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章What the Web and games have to teach each other，写的很精彩。 [...] [...]游戏和Web2.0的融合借鉴这个话题我暂时无法深入去谈,对此感兴趣的朋友一定要看看这篇文章Što je Web i igre moraju učiti jedni druge,写的很精彩. [...]

32. Keven ¯s Blog ͼ о¿ Web2_0 ļ Ê ھò ھò ڵĿ í wrote on September 24th, 2006 at 6:02 pm : Keven ¯ je blog ͼ о ¿Web2_0ļÊ ھ O ھ O ڵ Li pisao na 24. rujan 2006 u 6:02 h:

    [...] à: ھò Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ر ںϽ δ ķ չ ƣ δ ɹ Ϸ Է ռ Ƶ ״̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ָ ܹ ķ ʽ ˰ ĵ ״̬ С ׷ Ŀ ˼ά Ȥ ׷ ǵͲ ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ ģ ͵ͼ Ȥζ ޹ء£ Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ںϽ ʱ ޷ ȥ̸ Դ˸ Ȥ һ Ҫ ƪ ÂWhat the Web and games have to teach each other д ĺܾ ʡ£ ڴ˼򵥵 ̸̸ Լ Ĺ۲졣 ںܶ վ Ľ ƶ ѧϰ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ ۲ Ϸ ٷ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ 豻 Ҫλ ã Ե Ҳ ۵ λ á ٿ ´Myspace ˿ ÁYahoo ÍQQ Խ Խ Ӷ û Ĺ ʹ ð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬Web2.0ͬ ͷ Ϊ ⲻͬ ÚWeb1.0ʱ ý 廯 Ӫ ý 壬 ̸ Ҫ Ҫ ҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ Ӫ Ķ ̫ ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ ֪ ϴ ʢ Ҳ Ǿųǣ ס κ λ γ ijɹ о ׵ ƹ ϵ Ź۲ ҷ ijɹ ܼ򵥵Ĺ鹦 䴫 ʽ ƹ㣬 ҿ Ϸ Ӫ Ѿ 뵽 ˾ Ӫ С 籭 һ 籭 ۷ վ   ؼ Ĵ ⲻ û վ֮ Ļ Ҳ ǹ ˵ ʲô ÄWeb3.0 Ϊ Ĵ ⾫ û ֮ Ļ Ϸ е Ӳ ԣ ɫ л ֣ Ӵ 䣬 Ϊ û ṩһ ӵĽ ļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ Ļ ߻ ά ֲ վ ȡ£ Web2.0ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص û IJ С ɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ḻ ľ 飬ֵ ǹ۲ ѧϰ £ ͨ ٸöWeb2.0Ӧ õĿ Է ֣ б μ һƪ ģ ÉWeb2.0Ӧ õĴ У õ Ǽ ݺ û ໥ ã û 򸽼 ݣ ṩ ֯ û ֶΣ ݻ ݵĻ û ƺ һ ǹ ϵ ĺ ͼ н û ˡ ֣ Ӧ ڴ ǿ ݵ ǿ IJ һ ͼ еÄWeb2.0Ӧ ã ͼʾֻ ģ ʾ ⣬û о ָ ϵ ϸ ã κ һ ɹ ÄWeb2.0Ӧ ö ϵĸ л 壬 κε ķ 涼 ѳ ر ڼ ˵ 뵽 Ӧ ֵ ߱ һ С£ ݡ 롰 û ÚWeb2.0Ӧ г ֳ ȫ ͬ ġ Щ Щ ´Web ؼ ķ չ ˵ åWeb ͼ ݼ Լ°Web ġ£ ȣ ÚWeb κ Ϣ Ա ǡ Դ Ҳ ´W3C ÄResource ܱ ʶ ÐURI κζ κ Դ ǡ Ѱַ ¨URI ġ ͼ ˵Ҳ κα Դ ж ʶ Ĵ ڣ ڲ Ǽ򵥻 ӵġ ṹ ¨Warwick Framework ໥֮ Ҳ и ָ ӵĹ ϵ 桢Ƕ ף ɹ ͬʱ ڵġ ǿ Կ еÄWeb2.0Ӧ У ݿɱ ʶ ɹ һ ص㣨RSS ΢ ṹ ΢ ݣ û Ҳ Ϊһ ݴ ϵͳ У Ҳ ˵ ġ û 뾭 ע ã2.0Ӧ á Ҳ ǿ Ա ʶ ͹ ġ£ Σ Ҫ ϵ֮ ⣨ ں û ĸö2.0Ӧ ò ÃOntology ģ ȻXFN ¢DCmetadata Ҳ 壩 ݣ Ԫ ݣ Ҳ 轨 ӵ ǿɿص ϵ Щ ϵ õ ı ׼ DZ ׼ ÄXHTML/XML б 루 漰 ı ׼ 淶 ϵͳ γ Ϣ ֪ʶ ͨ ϵͳʵ ض Ĺ ܣ ˷ḻ ÄWeb2.0Ӧ ã ˼ ͼ ݺ åWeb һ ޣ £ ݼ ໥֮ ϵ Ҫ ֯ģʽ ֯ ͬ Ӧ ֯ ʽҲ Dz ͬ ģ¬Web2.0 Ӧ ó Ҫ ݵ Ȩ ԣ ŵĺͿ ֤ ģ Ҫ ֮ ⣨Ŀǰ ƺ Ӧ ϵͳ Ŀ ֤ ԣ åWeb Ŀ ꣩ Ҳ Ҫ 㶯̬ ġ ġ ѧϰ ġ ͼ ֯Ҫ Ϳ Կ û ֮ ij ϵ Ĺ ϵ ĿǰWeb2.0 Ĵ Ӧ ö ڲ ÄWeb ʽ ÔRESTΪ ų ͵ ҵӦ û ͬ Ӧ ÔSemantic Web Services ʽ Զ ֺ ֯ Ŀǰ ϵ ܹ ı ׼ 淶 δ 죬 Ӧ Ѿ Ȳ ˡ 为 Ӱ 콫 ǣ ı åWeb ÍWeb ķ չ· Ӧ ÚW3C ˵ ʮ ֿ µģ ˭ Ķ ô غͲ أ г Ѿ Ȳ ˡ£ 㣬 Ŀǰ åWeb ¢Web ͼ ݵ ؼ Ժ ϸ ǿ ԹܿúWeb2.0 δ չ· ͬʱҲ Ԥ ͼ Ý2.0 ͼ ݣ һЩ չ ơ£ ͼ ÐWeb1.0 ÍWeb2.0ֻ DZ һ ƣ ½ǵ Ͻǵ ƣ е Ӧ ö Ð2.0 ԣ ֻ ű ΪԽƫ ظ ˺ ݹ ģ Խ Ç1.0 Խƫ ữ ͼ Ϊ ӵģ Խƫ Ø2.0 ˶ ѡ£ [...] [...] A: ھ O Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 رں Ͻ δķ չ ƣ δ ɹ Ϸ Է ռ Ƶ ״̬ Ȥ Ȥ ˵ Ϸ ԣ ָ ܹ ķ ʽ ˰ ĵ ״̬ С ׷ Ŀ ˼ά Ȥ ׷ ǵͲ ε Ȥ Ǵ ˵ ģ ͵ͼ Ȥζ ޹ء£ Ϸ ÍWeb2.0 ںϽ ʱ ޷ ȥ̸ Դ˸ Ȥ һ Ҫ ƪ ÂWhat the Web and games have to teach each other д ĺܾ ʡ£ ڴ˼򵥵 ̸̸ Լ Ĺ۲졣 ںܶ վ Ľ ƶ ѧϰ Ϸ Ӫ ˾ ۲ Ϸ ٷ վ ᷢ ע Ჽ 豻 Ҫλ ã Ե Ҳ ۵ λ á ٿ ´Myspace ˿ ÁYahoo ÍQQ Խ Խ Ӷ û Ĺ ʹ ð Ϸ Ӫ ͷ ¬Web2.0ͬ ͷ Ϊ ⲻͬ ÚWeb1.0ʱ ý 廯 Ӫ ý 壬 ̸ Ҫ Ҫ ҳ ⡣ ʵ ܴ Ϸ Ӫ Ķ ̫ ˡ Ϸ Ȧ ˶ ֪ ϴ ʢ Ҳ Ǿųǣ ס κ λ γ ijɹ о ׵ ƹ ϵ Ź۲ ҷ ijɹ ܼ 򵥵Ĺ鹦 䴫 ʽ ƹ㣬 ҿ Ϸ Ӫ Ѿ 뵽 ˾ Ӫ С 籭 һ 籭 ۷ վ   ؼ Ĵ ⲻ û վ֮ Ļ Ҳ ǹ ˵ ʲô ÄWeb3.0 Ϊ Ĵ ⾫ û ֮ Ļ Ϸ е Ӳ ԣ ɫ л ֣ Ӵ 䣬 Ϊ û ṩһ ӵĽ ļƽ̨ ͨ Ϸ Ļ ߻ ά ֲ վ ȡ£ Web2.0ע ص Ǹ 뽻 ע ص û IJ С ɹ Ϸ Ӫ ⷽ ˷ḻ ľ 飬ֵ ǹ۲ ѧϰ £ ͨ ٸöWeb2.0Ӧ õĿ Է ֣ б μ һƪ ģ ÉWeb2.0Ӧ õĴ У õ Ǽ ݺ û ໥ ã û 򸽼 ݣ ṩ ֯ û ֶΣ ݻ ݵĻ û ƺ һ ǹ ϵ ĺ ͼ н û ˡ ֣ Ӧ ڴ ǿ ݵ ǿ IJ һ ͼ еÄWeb2.0Ӧ ã ͼʾֻ ģ ʾ ⣬û о ָ ϵ ϸ ã κ һ ɹ ÄWeb2.0Ӧ ö ϵĸ л 壬 κε ķ 涼 ѳ ر ڼ ˵ 뵽 Ӧ ֵ ߱ һ С£ ݡ 롰 û ÚWeb2.0Ӧ г ֳ ȫ ͬ ġ Щ Щ ´Web ؼ ķ չ ˵ åWeb ͼ ݼ Լ°Web ġ£ ȣ ÚWeb κ Ϣ Ա ǡ Դ Ҳ ´W3C ÄResource ܱ ʶ ÐURI κζ κ Դ ǡ Ѱַ ¨URI ġ ͼ ˵Ҳ κα Դ ж ʶ Ĵ ڣ ڲ Ǽ򵥻 ӵġ ṹ ¨Warwick Framework ໥֮ Ҳ и ָ ӵĹ ϵ 桢Ƕ ף ɹ ͬʱ ڵġ ǿ Կ еÄWeb2.0Ӧ У ݿɱ ʶ ɹ һ ص㣨RSS ΢ ṹ ΢ ݣ û Ҳ Ϊһ ݴ ϵͳ У Ҳ ˵ ġ û 뾭 ע ã2.0Ӧ á Ҳ ǿ Ա ʶ ͹ ġ£ Σ Ҫ ϵ֮ ⣨ ں û ĸö2.0Ӧ ò ÃOntology ģ ȻXFN ¢DCmetadata Ҳ 壩 ݣ Ԫ ݣ Ҳ 轨 ӵ ǿɿص ϵ Щ ϵ õ ı ׼ DZ ׼ ÄXHTML/XML б 루 漰 ı ׼ 淶 ϵͳ γ Ϣ ֪ʶ ͨ ϵͳʵ ض Ĺ ܣ ˷ḻ ÄWeb2.0Ӧ ã ˼ ͼ ݺ åWeb һ ޣ £ ݼ ໥֮ ϵ Ҫ ֯ģʽ ֯ ͬ Ӧ ֯ ʽҲ Dz ͬ ģ¬Web2.0 Ӧ ó Ҫ ݵ Ȩ ԣ ŵĺͿ ֤ ģ Ҫ ֮ ⣨Ŀǰ ƺ Ӧ ϵͳ Ŀ ֤ ԣ åWeb Ŀ ꣩ Ҳ Ҫ 㶯̬ ġ ġ ѧϰ ġ ͼ ֯Ҫ Ϳ Կ û ֮ ij ϵ Ĺ ϵ ĿǰWeb2.0 Ĵ Ӧ ö ڲ ÄWeb ʽ ÔRESTΪ ų ͵ ҵӦ û ͬ Ӧ ÔSemantic Web Services ʽ Զ ֺ ֯ Ŀǰ ϵ ܹ ı ׼ 淶 δ 죬 Ӧ Ѿ Ȳ ˡ 为 Ӱ 콫 ǣ ı åWeb ÍWeb ķ չ· Ӧ ÚW3C ˵ ʮ ֿ µģ ˭ Ķ ô غͲ أ г Ѿ Ȳ ˡ£ 㣬 Ŀǰ åWeb ¢Web ͼ ݵ ؼ Ժ ϸ ǿ ԹܿúWeb2.0 δ չ· ͬʱҲ Ԥ ͼ Ý2.0 ͼ ݣ һЩ չ ơ£ ͼ ÐWeb1.0 ÍWeb2.0ֻ DZ һ ƣ ½ǵ Ͻǵ ƣ е Ӧ ö Ð2.0 ԣ ֻ ű ΪԽƫ ظ ˺ ݹ ģ Խ Ç1.0 Խƫ ữ ͼ Ϊ ӵģ Խƫ Ø2.0 ˶ ѡ£ [...]

33. Ma.gnolia.com - Find Web Sites & Build Community Online wrote on December 4th, 2006 at 4:30 am :

    [...] Raph’s Website » What the Web and games have to teach each other [...]

34. Infocult: Information, Culture, Policy, Education wrote on January 5th, 2007 at 11:29 pm :

    Areae is a mystery, but is apparently aiming to offer something which synthesizes Web 2.0 and MMOGs. I’m glad to see this. For one, I’ve been talking about the importance of the gap between Web 2.0 and rich media (including MMOGs) for a while (cf this summer 2006 workshop

35. Games, Media and Geek Stuff From Cathode Tan wrote on January 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pm :

    user content and content sharing … I think that would be a tad hypocritical. Much to the contrary, I’m very interested in what he has in mind. I’m just always suspicious when Web 2.0 is the focus on the discussion and not the product itself. However, his blog post on what 2.0 has to teach games seems pretty right on. I guess in the end I’ll just know if I can be excited when I hear more about the actual game “later this year”. tagged: game, gaming

36. Technology Playground - Archives for: April 2006 wrote on January 28th, 2007 at 12:41 am :

    [...] Read more about it here. [...]

37. What the Web and games have to teach each other ~ Web Developers wrote on April 20th, 2007 at 7:09 am :

    [...] * Interface. Games bring a lot of interface knowledge to the table; consider that most games offer far more complex environments to navigate, with far subtler information, than the typical webpage. And yet, the current trend towards simpler interfaces in webpages has mostly meant simplifying actual capability. * It’s the content, stupid. Far too many web services are features, not systems, and far too many of them are intended to grow via user content without being seeded with actual content. The most robust user content communities are those built by fandoms, accreting like pearls around initial ideas. * Entertainment. Games are about fun; far too many web services are simply not fun. All activities can be improved by adding some fun factor: game-like qualities like collecting, ranking, and so on. * Feedback. Games understand that everything is about feedback. Websites often seem to forget, and I don’t know why. This is getting better with AJAX, but there’s still a heck of a lot of forms of feedback that are missing, particularly persistent feedback…. Source: Raph’s Website [...]

38. What the Web and games have to teach each other wrote on September 24th, 2007 at 4:05 am :

    [...] bloid via raphkoster.com Submitted: Sep 24 / 07:25 What the Web and games have to teach each other One of the things that I have been thinking about a lot lately is the way that the current Web [...]

39. danien.net wrote on November 26th, 2007 at 5:56 pm :

    [...] 2006-04-16: Raph Koster - What the Web and games have to teach each other [...]

1. BPMWare said on April 14th, 2006 at 8:27 pm :

   I’d add “process maturity” to the list of things that game guys could learn from the web (or more specifically software product development) folks. Every day I read about challenges faced on the gaming side that we faced developing software products back in the 90s (clients and web stuff). Stuff like change and configuration management, requirements management, and developing iteratively.

   Heck the other day when I was reading about your game modeling language and I kicked myself thinking … we did exactly this with UML back at Rational.

   On the flip side, I think the web folks tend to think of what they as nothing more than creating technology. I’d like to see the web approach their craft as more of a craft and try to make something “beautiful”. It’sa mindset change that could result in changing how most people experience the web.

2. Raph said on April 14th, 2006 at 11:00 pm :

   You know, I almost put “modern development methodologies” on there — especially forms of agile development — for something games could learn from the web. But games are starting to embrace scrum and agile methods…

   UML is notably ueless at architecting game systems, however — great for planning the flow of technological solutions, but the classic game dev problem isn’t solving the tech, it’s solving the fun. What I’ve seen happen with use of UML is a commitment to engineering a solution that may be the wrong one; then, since it was so carefully planned, there can be reluctance to remove or change it. You have to be willing to iterate.

3. MaxS said on April 14th, 2006 at 11:53 pm :

   There is no doubt that consumer web is undergoing process of “game-ization”. It was well underway for few years at least. habbo, neopets, MySpace is very game-like from inception.

   I think there will be more “distillation” of traditional monolithic game model. There is few distinct set of “game genes”, which historically evolved together so far. Let say one gene is “hardcore-ness”. 3D, increasing levels of realism, blow-zombine-with-shotgun, 5-vs-acid-attacks, and install from 5-DVDs types of things. Another is “social knowledgebase”. How guilds forms? How they live? How they breaks? What makes a vibrant game world? What makes it “sticky” and makes player to return? How you balance accomplishment, possessions and jealousy so it propels the community forward? Thats rough outline, yet there is lots of “social” genes encoded in online games now.

   So what happening with AJAX/Web 2.0 is that web is becoming more reactive, more real-time, more intensive. More game-like. Web 2.0 companies are actively forming game-like communities and obviously are very interested in the knowledge accumulated in games “social genes”. Yet at same time there is no need or interest to carry on “hardcore” genes with them. We going to see more of web companies grabbing bits and pieces of game knowledge and integrating it. I’m more skeptical regarding the reverse process - multi-million MMOG juggernauts adopting something from the web playbook. What traditional gamedevs are (critically?) missing is not specific list of web technologies to adopt – its whole culture of fast-paced reactivity and flexibility imposed by the web. MMOG culture is built around assumption to ship once per 5y. Web companies “ship” every other day – often on user feedback they just learned last week.

4. Michael Chui said on April 15th, 2006 at 2:17 am :

   O’Reilly describes Web 2.0 in 8 bullet points ; the second one interests me, “Data is the Intel Inside”. It makes me wonder what the “specialized database” he talks to would be for games.

   Wipe the slate; I’ll only talk about RPG genre games.

   Mechanics aren’t it; that’s the model. That’s really the rules governing how the data gets altered. No… the data itself isn’t game play ; it seems to be the game world . I think that’s interesting, that what drives an RPG is their unique universe, their lore, their narrative, their… character.

   To me, that suggests that MMOs should become more hardcore in order to do better. Why? Well, take the analogy of a good fantasy story. The casual reader, who just picks up a book every few years and reads a few chapters, is clearly not going to get into it. Even the reader who reads all the books and loves it isn’t going to really get into it. They’re spectators, not users. You might place virtual webcams inside your game and let people peek in, but they’re not a target audience.

   You want the people who write (possibly crappy) fanfics. You want people who read the Dragonlance Chronicles, and then say, “I want to run a campaign in that world.” Who read “The Last Guardian” and say, “Wow, Khadgar was cool! But what if Khadgar had been, say, a Paladin? I’m gonna play WoW and try it out.” Because those are the people who handle O’Reilly’s #3: “Users add value.” You also have to let them, which is #7, and encourage them, which is #5.

   That’s just the RPG genre, though. I’d suspect other game genres ought to widen their market, rather than shrink it. *shrugs* But then again, #1, “The Long Tail”, points to niche and hardcore, not mainstream and casual.

5. csven said on April 15th, 2006 at 8:06 am :

   Nice timing. I’ve been recently refocusing on similar issues; only involving videogames, Web 2.0 apps, and PLM software. As games reach out to the web (eg NBA 2k6 and Nike iD), internet connectivity becomes increasingly integrated into PLM software, and PLM software simulation gravitates towards videogame-like interfaces, there should be some remarkable developments in the next few years.

6. MikeRozak said on April 15th, 2006 at 2:02 pm :

   Some random thoughts:

   Interface - Since when do games have good UIs? Okay. Some of them do, but most have pretty horrific UIs.

   Platforms - Very important.

   Digital distribution - Very important.

   Everything is a database - I actually consider this a problem with MMORPGs and most MUDs. You feel like you’re playing the game in a database… Everything in the world is basically the same except for a numerical variation. Text interactive-fiction and older MUDs have the feel of walking through a program… Everything in the world is unique.

   Small pieces loosely joined - Yahoo Games (and similar) are small games loosely joined. (I think) the value in a CRPG/MMORPG are the strongly joined sub-games. If you pull them apart into small pieces they aren’t as fun.

   Client agnostic - Of course, text MUDs do this already. From the text-MUD example, you can glean the advantages and disadvantages of the approach.

7. Raph said on April 15th, 2006 at 3:37 pm :

   Actually, I think games are generally excellent at displaying complex information; a modern HUD in a game is a marvel of data display in many ways. Consider how many variables must be kept track of, and yet most gamers manage fine.

8. MikeRozak said on April 15th, 2006 at 9:38 pm :

   My general concerns about game UI:

   - When is the last time you spent 20 minutes on a tutorial learning how to use a specific web page? (Yes. I know games are more complex concepts than web pages.) Myst (and adventure games in general) are good examples of easy-to-learn UI. MMORPGs are the opposite. (Why do I have to type /p to talk to my party? Why not a checkbox button on the chat interface: [] talk to everyone, [x] talk to party, [] talk to guild?)

   To emphasize the point: Uru had WASD style movement. I seems that so many Myst users complained about the difficulty (in moving) that the lastest Myst defaults to nodal movement, and allows WASD as an “advanced” extra. Just think about how many potential MMORPG players are scared away by the difficulties in movement alone?

   - Non-standard controls between games (aka: Does space jump, select, or fire for a given game?). Some of this difference is understandable, but not all.

   - Hiding functionality amidst eye candy. Sometimes it’s impossible to tell what’sa button and what’s not on the HUD. WoW did a lot of this. I found EQII to be much cleaner.

   - Icons instead of text. Oblivion (to pick a current game) shows bizarre icons where text would be more intelligable.

   - Non-obvious hotkeys. Oblivion (to pick a current game) is particularly annoying with requiring hotkeys. Not only are they used a lot, but there’s no on-screen display to say that hotkey F2 = function X, so players have to memorize this.

   - HUDs in general. It’s far cleanr to have a region of the screen that is “What you see”, and another region for bits and pieces. Modern MMORPGs (HUD crazy) like scattering the bits and pieces everywhere so you feel like you’re driving around with stickers all over your car window and can’t see everything. EQII (as I recall) handled this fairly well by moving the bits and pieces to the bottom of the screen. (Or how about a second monitor for the bits? Many players have a second monitor lying around, and even have dual-monitor support on their video card. The games don’t support it though.)

9. Michael Chui said on April 16th, 2006 at 3:32 pm :

   (Why do I have to type /p to talk to my party? Why not a checkbox button on the chat interface: [] talk to everyone, [x] talk to party, [] talk to guild?)

   I smell command-line legacy design… I was actually going to comment with a plausible explanation, but upon returning to the computer four hours later, I couldn’t