Treating players like numbers January 4th, 2006 (Visited 11371 times) Tags: 4. sječnja 2006 (posjetio 11371 puta) Tags:

There’s been a lot of heavy, arguably negative stuff here lately. Tu je bila dosta teška, arguably negativne stvari ovdje u posljednje vrijeme. So I thought it might be interesting to talk a little bit about possibilities instead.

In general, I’ma big proponent of treating players like people. Općenito, Ja sam veliki predlagač liječenja igrača poput ljudi. The reverse is what game companies are often accused of, of course: treating players like numbers. Na naličju je ono što igru poduzeća često su optuženi za, naravno: liječenje igrača poput brojeva. Dehumanizing them. Dehumanizing njih. Viewing them through a purely statistical lens. Pregledavanje ih kroz objektiv čisto statistički. All very mechanical. Sve vrlo mehanički.

But wait… what can be done if we really treat players like cogs in a machine? Ali čekajte ... Što možete učiniti ako smo zaista tretirati kao igrača cogs u stroj?

Way back when, at the Austin Game Conference not last year, but the year prior, I suggested that we ought to be looking at “games that cure cancer,” to somewhat mixed reactions — for two different takes on that panel, see here and here. A year goes by, and I am sitting at a different conference and someone ( Byron Reeves ) presents exactly that. Put natrag kada, u Austinu Game konferencija ne prošle godine, a godinu dana prije, mi smo predložili da treba da se gleda na "igre koje liječe rak," da se nešto mješoviti reakcije - za dva različita uzima na toj ploči, pogledajte ovdje i ovdje. Prosle godine ide po, a ja sam sjedio na drugoj konferenciji i netko (Byron Reeves) predstavlja upravo to.

What he showed was a mockup of a Star Wars Galaxies medical screen, displaying real medical imagery. Što je pokazao bio je mockup o Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija medicinske ekrana, prikazujući pravi medicinski predodžba. Players were challenged to advance as doctors by diagnosing the cancers displayed, in an effort to capture the wisdom of crowds . Igrači unaprijed na izazvan su kao doktori po dijagnosticiranje i karcinom prikazani, u nastojanju da se na snimci mudrost gužve. The result? Rezultat? A typical gamer was found to be able to diagnose accurately at 60% of the rate of a trained pathologist. Tipični Gamer je našao da biste mogli dijagnosticirati točno na 60% od neke osposobljeni stopa patolog. Pile 30 gamers on top of one another, and the averaged result is equivalent to that of a pathologist — with a total investment of around 60-100 hours per player. Pila 30 gamere na vrh jedni drugima, a rezultat je prosječno u ekvivalentne da od patolog - s ukupno ulaganje od oko 60-100 sata po igraču.

I am reminded of the powerful ways in which collective intelligence is harnessed by games such as Alternate Reality Games . Ja sam podsjetio na snažne načine u kolektivnu inteligenciju koja je harnessed od igara kao što su Alternativa Reality igre. Seemingly impenetrable puzzles can be solved fairly quickly. Naizgled neprobojan Zagonetke mogu riješiti prilično brzo. In SWG, the first event we did involved finding objects on spawns that had messages that looked like this: U SWG, prvi događaj koji su uključeni smo učinili pronalaženje objekata na spawns da su poruke koje pogledala ovako:

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PCvEErxvzkxviqissi,elsEEhEesXeFEEesEvvrEgErsieelerriie(EEijEXrrvxeismovwEaExkEEeeeglErEaEieEEl:arctan(1/2):eEe PCvEErxvzkxviqissi, elsEEhEesXeFEEesEvvrEgErsieelerriie (EEijEXrrvxeismovwEaExkEEeeeglErEaEieEEl: arctan (1 / 2): eEe
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There were 40 of them, representing two completely different messages. Bilo je 40 od njih, koji predstavljaju dvije potpuno različite poruke. Players collected them all and cracked the cipher in less than 48 hours. Igrači prikupljaju ih sve i razbijen je šifra za manje od 48 sati. (I stuck one sample puzzle at the bottom, if you want to take a crack at it). (Ja u škripcu jedan uzorak puzzle na dnu, ako želite da se pukotine na tome). This one is pretty trivial compared to some of the stuff that the ARGs have thrown out there. To je prilično nevažan u odnosu na neke od stvari koje su ARGs izbačena vani.

The approach here is to treat players as a distributed parallel processing machine, filtering information and each node contributing its specialized knowledge: cogs in a machine. Pristup je da se ovdje postupati kao distribuiran igrača istodobna obrada stroj, informacije filtriranja i svaki čvor koji pridonose svojim znanjem specijalizirani: cogs u stroj.

Speculatively, there’s many approaches to be had here. Speculatively, postoji mnogo pristupa se imali ovdje. I’m not speaking about doing datamining on our game populations — there’s highly fruitful stuff to be had there, but a lot of it is about the specific ways in which people behave in the game spaces. Nisam govorio o radiš datamining na našu igru populacije - ima vrlo plodnu stvari su se ondje, ali mnogo je o specifičnim načinima na koje ljudi ponašaju u igri mjesta. Rather, I am speaking about ways in which we can externalize the computing power of large populations using the incentive structures of games. Umjesto, ja sam govorio o načinima na koji možemo dati određeni oblik Computing moć velikih populacija pomoću poticajnih strukture igara.

Consider: Razmislite:

• We use tools like SETI@Home to distribute highly technical tasks like signal processing. However, there are cognitive tasks we could outsource in this fashion, as in the cancer example. Međutim, tu su i kognitivni zadaci bismo mogli outsource u ovoj mode, kao na primjer raka. Could, for example, jury trials be improved upon if assessing the truth of evidence were a distributed game? Možete, na primjer, žiri suđenja biti na poboljšalo procjenu ako istinu dokazi bili distribuirani igru? Could airport security be improved by creating scenarios about infiltration in our MMOs? Mogu se poboljšala sigurnost aerodroma stvaranjem scenarija oko ubacivanje u naš MMOs?
• Idea markets are already in use in a wide array of fields, generally constructed as games. Ideja tržišta su već u uporabi u široku lepezu područja, uglavnom konstruiran kao igre. Arguably, Second Life is being used as an idea market for the design process for furniture and clothing. Arguably, Second Life se koristi kao ideja tržište za dizajn procesa za namještaj i odjeću. While the Pentagon’s attempt to use a futures market for forecasting terror attacks floundered due to politics (”betting on terrorism??!!?!”) there’s clearly possible approaches that can be taken within a game. Dok se Pentagon's pokušati koristiti ročno tržište za predviđanje terorističkim napadima floundered zbog politike ( "kladionica na terorizam ??!!?!") postoji jasno mogućih pristupa koji se može uzeti u igri.
• Players are the best alife agent we’re managed to find. Why rely on Axtell and Axelrod-style simulations when we can build environments and loose players in them? Zašto se oslanjaju na Axtell i Axelrod stilu simulacije kad možemo izgraditi sredinama i labav igrača u njima? The trick would be to get the environmental stimuli to match the ones provided in the real world. U trik da bi se dobili okoliša osjeta bi se slagala s one koje u stvarnom svijetu. (I’ve argued before that this isn’t really possible, but hey, it’s worth a try). (Prije nego sam tvrdio da to nije stvarno moguće, ali hej, to vrijedi pokušati). The old landscaping trick when deciding to put down paths was to wait a while, see where people trod the grass, and then pave where they had walked them ost; that sort of thing would be trivially easy (and cheaper) to do in our games, given a decent topographical map of the landscape. Stara krajobraznog trik prilikom odlučivanja u zabilježiti staze je pričekati neko vrijeme, vidjeti gdje se ljudi trod travu, onda poditi i gdje su im šetale ost; da kakve to bi bilo lako trivially (i jeftinije) da se u našim igrama , Dobio pristojan topografskih karta krajolika.
• There’sa university right now using a major MMO to do total-immersion teaching of a foreign language; by putting the students in constant contact with the foreign language and forcing them to learn it in order to succeed at advancing in the game, they hope to see as hig has a 30% greater fluency on the part of the students. Sveučilište nalazi upravo sada koriste veliki MMO učiniti totalna uroni nastave stranog jezika; stavljanjem učenika u stalnom kontaktu sa stranim jezikom i prisiljavajući ih da naučite ga kako bi uspjeli na napredovanje u igri, oni se nadam da vidim kako hig ima 30% veću tečnost od strane studenata.

I’m not really making a pitch for “serious games” here — rather, I am suggesting that our non-serious games can be put to serious uses on the side, thanks to their scale. Nisam stvarno donošenja smola za "ozbiljne igre" ovdje - naprotiv, ja sam predlaganjem da naš ne-ozbiljne igre mogu staviti na ozbiljnu koristi na strani, zahvaljujući njihovoj ljestvici. Being a cog in the machine can serve higher purposes even while each individual cog goes on its merry way enjoying its gameplay.

There’sa lot of possibilities. Nalazi puno mogućnosti. Got some more? Imaš nešto više?

The SWG Puzzle U SWG Mozgalice

The below is just one of the two messages, and I have spared you the effort of gathering the pieces individually and not knowing how many pieces there are. U nastavku je samo jedna od dvije poruke, i ja sam vas poštedio napora u prikupljanju dijelove pojedinačno, i ne znajući koliko komada ima. If you despair, you can see how the community solved it here . Ako očajavati, možete vidjeti kako je zajednica riješeno ovdje.

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18 Responses to “Treating players like numbers” 18 Odgovori na "liječenje igrača poput brojeva"

1. mmplay - Massively Multiplayer Online Games wrote on January 4th, 2006 at 11:57 am : mmplay - masivno Multiplayer Online igre je napisao / la dana January 4. 2006 u 11:57:

   [...] Ok, nicht wirklich. [...] Ok, nicht wirklich. Aber Raph Koster macht sich in einem Blog Eintrag auf seiner Webseite Gedanken darüber, was mit der gigantischen Ressource an kreativen Spielern in MMO’s alles möglich und auch unmöglich wäre. Aber Raph Koster macht sich u einem Blog Eintrag auf ribar koji lovi mrežom Webseite Gedanken darüber, je mit der gigantischen Ressource jedan kreativen Spielern u MMO-a alles möglich und auch unmöglich ver. Er vergleicht das Potenzial mit Projekten wie SETI@Home, nur das es hier keine Computer sind, die parallel an einem Problem arbeiten, sondern Menschen.

   Er führt das Beispiel von Byron Reeves an, der ein System ähnlich zum Medical Screen in Star Wars Galaxies entwickelte und mit realen Daten zur Krebserkennung fütterte. Er führt das Beispiel von Byron Reeves jednom, der ein ähnlich sustava Zum Medicinska Zaslon u Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija entwickelte und mit realen Daten zur Krebserkennung fütterte. Im Ergebnis war ein typischer Spieler fähig die Krebsart in 60% der Fälle korrekt zu diagnostizieren. Nimmt man 30 Spieler zusammen, sind die Ergebnisse gleichwertig mit denen eines ausgebildeten Pathologen. Nimmt čovjek 30 nešto reklamira zusammen, sind umrijeti Ergebnisse gleichwertig mit denen eines ausgebildeten Pathologen.

   Raph überlegt auf rein theoretischer Basis in seinem Blog “Treating players like numbers” wie sich dieses Potenzial, dass den Spielern zudem Spaß macht, weiter genutzt werden könnte. Raph überlegt auf obuzdati theoretischer Osnova u seinem Blog "tretira igrače kao što su brojevi" wie sich dieses Potenzial, dass den Spielern zudem Spaß macht, weiter genutzt werden könnte. [...] [...]

2. Ripples in the Sea of People wrote on January 4th, 2006 at 8:28 pm : Ripples u more People je napisao / la dana January 4., 2006 u 8:28 am:

   [...] http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=242There’s been a lot of heavy, arguably negative stuff here lately. [...] Http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=242There je bila dosta teška, arguably negativne stvari ovdje u posljednje vrijeme. So I thought it might be interesting to talk a little bit about possibilities instead. [...] [...]

3. MMORPG - MMORPG Spieler heilen Krebs wrote on January 5th, 2006 at 7:00 am : MMORPG - MMORPG nešto reklamira heilen Krebs napisao je 5. siječnja 2006 u 7:00 pm:

   [...] Ok, nicht wirklich. Aber Raph Koster macht sich in einem Blog Eintrag auf seiner Webseite Gedanken darüber, was mit der gigantischen Ressource an kreativen Spielern in MMO’s alles möglich und auch unmöglich wäre. Aber Raph Koster macht sich u einem Blog Eintrag auf ribar koji lovi mrežom Webseite Gedanken darüber, je mit der gigantischen Ressource jedan kreativen Spielern u MMO-a alles möglich und auch unmöglich ver. Er vergleicht das Potenzial mit Projekten wie SETI@Home, nur das es hier keine Computer sind, die parallel an einem Problem arbeiten, sondern Menschen.

   Er führt das Beispiel von Byron Reeves an, der ein System ähnlich zum Medical Screen in Star Wars Galaxies entwickelte und mit realen Daten zur Krebserkennung fütterte. Er führt das Beispiel von Byron Reeves jednom, der ein ähnlich sustava Zum Medicinska Zaslon u Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija entwickelte und mit realen Daten zur Krebserkennung fütterte. Im Ergebnis war ein typischer Spieler fähig die Krebsart in 60% der Fälle korrekt zu diagnostizieren. Im ein Ergebnis rata typischer nešto reklamira fähig umrijeti Krebsart u 60% der Fälle korrekt zu diagnostizieren. Nimmt man 30 Spieler zusammen, sind die Ergebnisse gleichwertig mit denen eines ausgebildeten Pathologen. Nimmt čovjek 30 nešto reklamira zusammen, sind umrijeti Ergebnisse gleichwertig mit denen eines ausgebildeten Pathologen.

   Raph überlegt auf rein theoretischer Basis in seinem Blog “Treating players like numbers” wie sich dieses Potenzial, dass den Spielern zudem Spaß macht, weiter genutzt werden könnte. Raph überlegt auf obuzdati theoretischer Osnova u seinem Blog "tretira igrače kao što su brojevi" wie sich dieses Potenzial, dass den Spielern zudem Spaß macht, weiter genutzt werden könnte. [...]

4. Eclectic Mayhem: Ben Darnell's blog wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 8:10 pm : Eklektik zločin: Ben Darnell's blog napisao U četvrtak, 17. travnja 2006 u 8:10 am:

   make this an enjoyable part of play, without privacy risks. čine ovaj ugodan dio igre, bez rizika privatnost. Harnessing the wisdom of a MMOG crowd might prove useful–while one player might deliberately sabotage the screening process, 100 unrelated players are not likely to do the same. Harnessing mudrost, a MMOG gužve mogu pokazati korisno-a jedan igrač može namjerno sabotirati procesa screeninga, 100 nepovezanih igrača nije vjerojatno da će učiniti isto. Raph Kosterintroduced this idea on his blog in January, 2006. Raph Kosterintroduced ovu ideju na njegov blog u siječnju 2006. Airport Screening Is A Badly-Designed Game written by Tony Walsh for Clickable Culture copyright (c) in whole or in part 2006, Tony Walsh Tagged: Design Gaming Life Mixed Reality Technology Watchdog Zračna luka screening-Teško je dizajnirano Game napisao Tony Walsh kliknuti za kulturu Copyright (c) u cijelosti ili djelimično 2006, Tony Walsh označeni: Design Gaming Život Mixed Reality tehnologiju za upozoravanje

5. Clickable Culture wrote on April 17th, 2006 at 8:10 pm :

   make this an enjoyable part of play, without privacy risks. čine ovaj ugodan dio igre, bez rizika privatnost. Harnessing the wisdom of a MMOG crowd might prove useful–while one player might deliberately sabotage the screening process, 100 unrelated players are not likely to do the same. Harnessing mudrost, a MMOG gužve mogu pokazati korisno-a jedan igrač može namjerno sabotirati procesa screeninga, 100 nepovezanih igrača nije vjerojatno da će učiniti isto. Raph Kosterintroduced this idea on his blog in January, 2006. Raph Kosterintroduced ovu ideju na njegov blog u siječnju 2006. Airport Screening Is A Badly-Designed Game written by Tony Walsh for Clickable Culture copyright (c) in whole or in part 2006, Tony Walsh Tagged: Design Gaming Life Mixed Reality Technology Watchdog Zračna luka screening-Teško je dizajnirano Game napisao Tony Walsh kliknuti za kulturu Copyright (c) u cijelosti ili djelimično 2006, Tony Walsh označeni: Design Gaming Život Mixed Reality tehnologiju za upozoravanje

6. Game Tycoon wrote on November 12th, 2006 at 6:47 pm : Game Tycoon pisao na 12. studeni 2006 u 6:47 am:

   [IMG] It’s taken a while, but I want to return to my article on using games to tap the wisdom of crowds. [IMG] To je uzeti neko vrijeme, ali želim da se vratite na moj članak o korištenju igara za taknite mudrost gužve. First and foremost, I’d like to bring attention to the writings of Raph Koster. Kao prvo, želim donijeti pozornost na pisanje o Raph Koster. Raph informed me that he’s been thinking about this idea as well for quite some time now. Raph informirao me da je bilo razmišljanja o ovoj ideji, ali za sada dosta neko vrijeme. However, Raph one-upped me: he found someone who actually tested the theory! Međutim, Raph jednom upped me nađe nekoga tko zapravo testirane teorije! From Raph’s blog: What [Byron Reeves] showed was a mockup of a Star Wars Od Raph's blog: Što [Byron Reeves] pokazalo je bio mockup o Star Wars

7. Confessions of an Aca/Fan: The Official Weblog of Henry Jenkins wrote on November 26th, 2006 at 11:08 pm : Konfesija od ACA / Fan: The Official Weblog of Henry Jenkins pisao na 26. studeni 2006 u 11:08 sati:

   can develop, as Edery proposes, mechanisms for linking game play mechanics with real world data sets. može razviti, kao Edery predlaže, mehanizme za povezivanje igrivošću mehanika u stvarnom svijetu setovi podataka. Indeed, Raph Koster — another games blogger who has been exploring these ideas — does Edery one better, pointing to a project which actually tested this concept: What [Byron Reeves] showed was a mockup of a Star Wars Galaxies medical screen, displaying real medical imagery. Doista, Raph Koster - drugi igre blogger koji je upoznavanje ove ideje - ne Edery bolji, upućuju na projektu koji zapravo testirao ovaj koncept: Što [Byron Reeves] pokazalo je bio mockup o Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija medicinske ekrana, prikazujući pravi medicinski snimke. Players were challenged to advance as doctors by diagnosing the cancers displayed, in an effort to capture the wisdom of crowds. Igrači unaprijed na izazvan su kao doktori po dijagnosticiranje i karcinom prikazani, u nastojanju da se na snimci mudrost gužve. The Taj

8. Smart Mobs wrote on December 1st, 2006 at 12:18 am :

   can develop, as Edery proposes, mechanisms for linking game play mechanics with real world data sets. Indeed, Raph Koster — another games blogger who has been exploring these ideas — does Edery one better, pointing to a project which actually tested this concept: What [Byron Reeves] showed was a mockup of a Star Wars Galaxies medical screen, displaying real medical imagery. Doista, Raph Koster - drugi igre blogger koji je upoznavanje ove ideje - ne Edery bolji, upućuju na projektu koji zapravo testirao ovaj koncept: Što [Byron Reeves] pokazalo je bio mockup o Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija medicinske ekrana, prikazujući pravi medicinski snimke. Players were challenged to advance as doctors by diagnosing the cancers displayed, in an effort to capture the wisdom of crowds. Igrači unaprijed na izazvan su kao doktori po dijagnosticiranje i karcinom prikazani, u nastojanju da se na snimci mudrost gužve. The Taj

9. The Cooperation Blog — CooperationCommons wrote on December 9th, 2006 at 1:39 am :

   can develop, as Edery proposes, mechanisms for linking game play mechanics with real world data sets. može razviti, kao Edery predlaže, mehanizme za povezivanje igrivošću mehanika u stvarnom svijetu setovi podataka. Indeed, Raph Koster — another games blogger who has been exploring these ideas — does Edery one better, pointing to a project which actually tested this concept: What [Byron Reeves] showed was a mockup of a Star Wars Galaxies medical screen, displaying real medical imagery. Doista, Raph Koster - drugi igre blogger koji je upoznavanje ove ideje - ne Edery bolji, upućuju na projektu koji zapravo testirao ovaj koncept: Što [Byron Reeves] pokazalo je bio mockup o Zvjezdani ratovi galaksija medicinske ekrana, prikazujući pravi medicinski snimke. Players were challenged to advance as doctors by diagnosing the cancers displayed, in an effort to capture the wisdom of crowds. Igrači unaprijed na izazvan su kao doktori po dijagnosticiranje i karcinom prikazani, u nastojanju da se na snimci mudrost gužve. The Taj

1. Timothy Burke said on January 4th, 2006 at 11:00 am : Timotej ugušiti, rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 11:00:

   This is a bit of what I was thinking about in my paper for DiGRA–the potential fertile meeting ground between Axelrod-style work on artificial societies and virtual-world research. To je nešto što sam mislio o u moje DiGRA-papir za potencijalne plodno tlo sastanak između Axelrod-stilu rada na umjetnoj društvima i virtualno svijetu istraživanja.

   One of the practical necessities for making headway, though, would either be successful research-oriented virtual worlds that were sufficiently appealing to players that they would play even though they were also being research subjects or the willingness of big commercial developers to allow open datamining of their worlds (or to share their own in-house datamining). Jedan od praktičnih potreba za izradu praznine, ipak, bilo bi biti uspješna istraživanje usmjereno virtualni svjetovi koji su bili dovoljno povjerenja u igrače koji bi se igrati, iako su se i predmeta istraživanja ili spremnost za velike komercijalne dopušta programerima da otvorite datamining od njihove svjetove (ili na udio vlastitih in-house datamining). Do you think the second prospect is likely? Because I see continuing barriers of time and expense to the first. Budući da vidim dalje prepreke vremena i troškova, do prvog.

2. Mandrel said on January 4th, 2006 at 12:13 pm : Vreteno, rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 12:13:

   Looks like your link to the solution was swept away when the SWG boards were recently archived. Izgleda vaš link na rješenje bio swept daleko kad SWG zajednice su nedavno u arhivi. I bet this was a realy fun activity for the community to participate in. If more challenges and puzzles were developed, mayhaps the game wouldn’t be where it is today? Ja kladim je to stvarno zabavno aktivnosti za zajednicu na sudjelovanje rezervirati Ako više izazova i Zagonetke su razvijena, mayhaps igra ne bi bila gdje je danas?

3. Wilfried said on January 4th, 2006 at 12:19 pm : Wilfried, rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 12:19:

   What you describe is basicaly the concept of a Think Tank , so I guess you can find lots of ideas with looking at what Think Tanks are working at Što vam opisati je u osnovi koncept od Think Tank, tako da mislim da možete pronaći mnogo ideja s pogledom na što Think tankovi rade na

   Back when I was a teenager in school my English improved fairly much by playing Infocom games like “Wishbringer”, “Trinity” and “A mind forever voyaging”. Natrag kada sam bio tinejdžer u školi moj engleski prilično puno poboljšalo od Infocom igranje igara kao što su "Wishbringer", "Trojstvo" i "A srce zauvijek voyaging".

   However, it makes me fear a little to think of what can be done with the wrong intentions in mind. Međutim, čini me strah malo razmisliti o tome što se može obaviti s pogrešne namjere na umu. Like manipulating political or historical knowledge or even spreading ideas of terrorism. Luckily by know this is mostly science fiction. Srećom po zna to je uglavnom znanstvena fantastika. But looking at the China Communist Youth League funding “ Anti-Japan War Online ” MMO, it seems pretty clear to me, what the intention already is. No, gledaju u Kini komunistička mladež Liga financiranja "anti-Japan Online rata" MMO, izgleda prilično jasno mi je, što već je namjera.

4. Raph said on January 4th, 2006 at 12:40 pm : Raph rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 12:40:

   The link worked this morning (the thread is still in the archives), but you have to be logged into the forums. Veza je radila jutros (nit je još uvijek u arhivi), ali morate biti prijavljeni na forum. Once you log in, the URL is http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=323382 . Nakon što se prijavite u, na URL http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=323382.

   The response was mixed, in large part because it was a collaborative puzzle-solving exercise, but the reward was given to the first person to send in a solution. Odgovor je bio mješoviti, velikim dijelom zato što je to bio zbuniti kolaborativni rješavanja vježbe, ali je nagradu dobio je za prvu osobu poslati rješenje. (everyone who participated in the event got a separate reward, which probably would have sufficed). (svima koji su sudjelovali u slučaju dobila zasebna nagrada, koja će vjerojatno imati sufficed). Several folks, including some on the team, disliked having an out-of-game event, which is something that I personally have no hang-ups about. Nekoliko ljudi, uključujući i neke na tim, nevoljen ima out-of-igra događaja, što je nešto što ja osobno nemam objesiti oko prozora. Lastly, the more story-oriented folks felt a bit left out. Konačno, to je priča orijentirani ljudi osjećala malo ispuštaju.

   The people who did get into it seemed to love it. Ljudi koji su dobili u nju kao da je ljubav. I think that ARGs prove that married with ongoing interesting fiction, both story fans and the puzzle-solvers can greatly enjoy this sort of thing. Mislim da ARGs dokazati da je u braku s tekućim zanimljiv fikcija, kako priča obožavatelja i puzzle-solvers mogu uživati u ovoj velikoj mjeri od sortirati stvar.

5. Mandrel said on January 4th, 2006 at 1:34 pm :

   Looks like I’m getting an error, maybe need Dev level permissions to see it. Izgleda sam dobivanje do pogreške, možda je potrebno Dev razini dozvole za vidjeti. Anyways, now that I really think back, I seem to remember this, though I didn’t take part. Uglavnom, sad da sam stvarno mislite nazad, sam izgleda da zapamtite ovo, iako nisam sudjelovati. I was too busy crafting, working on Weaponsmith at the time. Bio sam previše zauzet crafting, radi na Weaponsmith na vrijeme.

   Why can’t something like this be made persistant? Zašto ne mogu nešto ovako biti uporni? Include the clues into loot tables, and to solve it a player would speak to an NPC, input the text and surrender the clues for a reward. Maybe the first person on the server to complete it gets the “special” reward for finishing first, but the content is there for the life of the game. Možda je prva osoba na poslužitelju da biste dovršili to dobiva "posebna" nagrada za doradu prvi, ali sadržaj je tu za život u igri. Dev hours aren’t seen as wasted on a “one- off” event, and the world’s history and lore is enriched. Dev sati se ne vidi kao izgubiti na "jedan izlaz" događaj, i svjetske povijesti i znanje je obogatio.

6. MikeRozak said on January 4th, 2006 at 1:38 pm : MikeRozak rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 1:38 am:

   We use tools like SETI@Home to distribute highly technical tasks like signal processing. Mi koristiti alate kao što je SETI @ Home distribuirati visoko tehničkih zadataka kao što su obrada signala. However, there are cognitive tasks we could outsource in this fashion, as in the cancer example. Međutim, tu su i kognitivni zadaci bismo mogli outsource u ovoj mode, kao na primjer raka. Could, for example, jury trials be improved upon if assessing the truth of evidence were a distributed game? Could airport security be improved by creating scenarios about infiltration in our MMOs? Mogu se poboljšala sigurnost aerodroma stvaranjem scenarija oko ubacivanje u naš MMOs?

   This reminds me of my internal “rewrite” of the Matrix…

   In the Matrix, the machine kept the humans around as an energy source, which is a silly premise. U Matrix, stroja čuva ljude oko kao izvor energije, što je glup prostor. However, if the machines kept the humans around because humans were better at solving some problems than the machines, then the human subjugation in the Matrix made sense. All the pointless stuff you do in life is really part of solving a larger problem. Sve besmislene stvari koju radimo u životu zapravo je dio većeg rješavanju problema.

   The Hitchhiker’s Guide also used this idea. U autostoper's Vodič također koristi ovu ideju.

   User-created content includes this idea as well. Korisnički urednik uključuje sadržaj ove ideje kao dobro.

7. Raph said on January 4th, 2006 at 2:32 pm : Raph rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 2:32 am:

   Mandrel, the in-game quest part is indeed still there, and I believe people can still take a whack at solving the puzzle. Osovina, u igri je zadatak dio je zaista još uvijek postoje, i mislim da ljudi i dalje mogu uzeti udio u rješavanju puzzle.

8. xaldin said on January 4th, 2006 at 3:45 pm : xaldin rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 3:45 am:

   The total immersion to learn a language would have been really helpful for me. I’d like to see more stuff like that honestly. Htio bih vidjeti više stvari kao da je pošteno. I do think that online worlds/enviroments (which is what we’re talking about really not games by the current sense) have a lot of potential the issue becomes trust in the results. Ja to mislim da za online svjetovi / enviroments (što je ono što smo zapravo ne govori o igrama po trenutnom smislu) imaju mnogo potencijala problem postaje povjerenja u rezultate. I’d be very nervous about letting say the population of SWG diagnose me for possible cancer. Htio biti jako nervozan oko Najam reći stanovništva SWG mene za moguće dijagnosticirati rak. Your results may average out to even but I typically don’t go to an average level doctor either for those same reasons. Vaši rezultati svibanj prosječna da čak i ja ali obično ne idu na prosječnu razinu liječnika ili za one iste razloge.

9. Mandrel said on January 4th, 2006 at 7:00 pm :

   I know you like discussing generalities and theories here Raph, but this was bugging me, so I went back into the SWG forum archives for some info. Znam da je opisala kao generalities i teorijama ovdje Raph, ali to je bugging me, pa sam vrati u SWG forumu arhiv za neke informacije. I found a readable post about the storyline here. In fact, the clues for this stopped dropping about 2 years ago.
   As far as your main idea, I think it’s an interesting way to approach design, but the implementation may be where the difficulty lies. Što se tiče vaše glavne ideje, mislim da je zanimljiv način pristupa dizajnu, ali provedba svibanj, gdje se nalazi poteškoća. How does one parse the “good” or “successful” data from the bad? Kako analizirati jedan je "dobar" ili "uspješni" podatke iz loše?
   In your example, a typical player (what is that anyways?) was able to diagnose cancer correctly at a 60% rate of a pathologist. U vaš primjer, tipični igrač (što je to Uglavnom?) Bio u mogućnosti u dijagnosticiranju raka točno na 60%, a stopa patolog. Was the sample size large enough to make those results meaningful? Bio je broj ispitanika dovoljno velik da bi one smislene rezultate? Was it a simple test of “is this cancer a. Da li jednostavan test "je ovaj rak a. or cancer b.?” raka ili b.? "
   I would go so far as to say that there are large groups working on problems, albeit not IN the games, but in the community on the forums. Ja bih ići tako daleko da kažu da postoji velika grupa radi na probleme, ali ne u igrama, ali u zajednici na forumima. Their “incentive” is a better, more enjoyable game. Njihov "poticaj" je bolje, više ugodna igra. Many games have passionate, well informed community members that spend hours tracking game mechanics, and writing proposals for improvements. Mnoge igre imaju strasan, dobro informirani članovi zajednice da provode vrijeme praćenja igra mehanika i pisanja prijedloga za poboljšanja.
   Here we run into that implementation problem, of parsing the good from the bad. Ovdje ćemo pokrenuti u taj problem implementacije, od raščlanjivanjem dobro od lošeg. For every one constructive, well- written proposal there may be hundreds of unrelated, off-topic posts (or data points) that drown out the good. Za svaki konstruktivan, dobro pisani prijedlog svibanj tamo biti stotine nepovezanih, off-topic komentara (ili podataka bodova) da utopiti se dobro.

10. Raph said on January 4th, 2006 at 7:09 pm : Raph rekao je na 4. sječnja 2006 u 7:09 am:

    The Wisdom of Crowds theory says that you’d want to tackle specific problems that are easily quantifiable, not ones that are vague like “improve this game system.” The trick then becomes asking the right question. Mudrost Crowds teorija kaže da bi želite da rješavaju određene probleme koji se lako quantifiable, a ne one koje su nejasne kao "poboljšaju ovu igru sustav." Trik je tada postaje moleći pravo pitanje.

    “What should the damage be on this sword?” might a better example. "Što bi se šteta na ovim mačem?" Možda bolji primjer. Note, you’d take the AVERAGE of all the answers given, even the stupid ones. Primijetite, molim vas uzmite prosjek svih odgovora dao, čak i one glupe.

11. Darniaq said on January 5th, 2006 at 5:58 am : Darniaq, rekao je 5. siječnja 2006 u 5:58 pm:

    The response was mixed, in large part because it was a collaborative puzzle-solving exercise, but the reward was given to the first person to send in a solution. Odgovor je bio mješoviti, velikim dijelom zato što je to bio zbuniti kolaborativni rješavanja vježbe, ali je nagradu dobio je za prvu osobu poslati rješenje. (everyone who participated in the event got a separate reward, which probably would have sufficed). (svima koji su sudjelovali u slučaju dobila zasebna nagrada, koja će vjerojatno imati sufficed). Several folks, including some on the team, disliked having an out-of-game event, which is something that I personally have no hang-ups about. Nekoliko ljudi, uključujući i neke na tim, nevoljen ima out-of-igra događaja, što je nešto što ja osobno nemam objesiti oko prozora. Lastly, the more story-oriented folks felt a bit left out. Konačno, to je priča orijentirani ljudi osjećala malo ispuštaju.

    While the SWG puzzle was far beyond my cognitive abilities, the debate about its merit reminded me of the older UO events from, err, February 2001 I think it was. Iako je SWG zagonetka je daleko izvan moje kognitivne sposobnosti, raspravu o svojim zaslugama me podsjetio na stare događaje iz UO, zavode, veljača 2001 Mislim da je. Every two weeks there was a new event, and one I remember featured a server riddle/puzzle and then a mass mob assault. Very good time that everyone could partake in. Vrlo dobar put da se svi mogli sudjelovati rezervirati

    The only issue I personally had with the SWG puzzle was that the reward dispensation was counterintuitive. Jedini problem sam osobno imao s SWG zagonetka je da se plaća davanje je counterintuitive. Using people as parallel processors would seem to tie to giving a reward to all participants in some form. Korištenje ljudi kao paralelne procesora čini da bi kravata za davanje nagradu za sve sudionike u nekom obliku. What I seemed to get from the SWG puzzle event was that it wasn’t so much the first person to figure out (anathema to Wisdom of the Crowds anyway, I feel), it was the first person to report it. Što sam kao da se dobiti od SWG odgonetnuti događaj bio je da to nije toliko prva osoba za shvatiti (anatema za mudrost gužve u svakom slučaju, osjećam), to je bila prva osoba koja ga prijaviti. Everyone deserved a reward for being part of the machinery. Svatko zaslužuje nagradu za dio na strojevima. You don’t just grease one cog in a clock Ne samo mast jedan vršak na sat

    And as to those who didn’t like it because it was an out-of-game event, I can understand that, but I personally don’t have a problem with it either. A kako onima koji ne sviđa jer ga je bilo out-of-igra slučaju, ja mogu razumjeti da, ali ja osobno nemam problema s njim bilo. Heck, for all the reading and posting that goes on around these parts, we’re already taking the games with us out of the game worlds Pakao, za sve čitanja i objavljivanja koji ide na oko tih dijelova, mi smo već preuzimanju igara s nama iz igre svjetovi

    Otherwise, parallel processing of any form has always fascinated me. Inače, istodobna obrada više od bilo mi je oduvijek fasciniran. It seems to counter the assertions of insular American culture (everyone’sa hero), but I think that just means people need to recognize where they are an individual and where they can be part of a larger whole on occasion. Čini counter tvrdnje o otočni američke kulture (everyone'sa heroj), ali mislim da jednostavno znači da ljudi trebaju prepoznati gdje su pojedinačni i gdje oni mogu biti dio većeg cijeli na prigodu. Maybe it’s just in the packaging of it. Možda je samo u pakiranju od toga. Few seem to have a problem doing the wave at a stadium. Malo je izgleda da imate problem u ondulacija radite na stadionu.

12. Darniaq said on January 5th, 2006 at 6:00 am :

    Oh, and for some reason, in these sorts of discussions I’m always reminded of Hari Seldon’s Psychohistory from the Asimove series (and which was picked up in a Star Trek book series, and I’m sure other places).

13. Raph said on January 5th, 2006 at 8:32 am : Raph, rekao je 5. siječnja 2006 u 8:32 pm:

    Actually, Darniaq, the precise process was to get five fragments, combine them, and turn them in at an Imp or Reb recruiter for 500 faction points and a badge. Zapravo, Darniaq, precizan postupak je da se pet ulomaka, kombinirati ih i pretvoriti ih u na IMP ili Reb recruiter za 500 bodova frakcija i značku. The puzzle was above and beyond that. U zagonetka je iznad i izvan toga. So everyone who participated at all in gathering clues (whether they shared them or not) did in fact get a reward. Tako je svima koji su sudjelovali na skupu u svim clues (dijeli ih da li oni ili ne) nije u stvari dobili plaću.

    There was also a large-scale “the faction that turns in the most gets a boost next month” thing. Bilo je i velikih "je frakcija koja skreće u većini dobiva pogurati sljedeći mjesec" stvar.

    We probably should not have had a reward for the puzzle solving itself — all it did was deliver some fiction. Mi vjerojatno ne bi trebali imati su nagradu za rješavanje odgonetnuti sama - sve to učini je dostaviti neke fikcija.

14. Pyr0 said on January 6th, 2006 at 2:24 am : Pyr0 rekao je na 6. sječnja 2006 u 2:24 pm:

    This reminds me of Amazon Mechanical Turk , which is almost fun. To me podsjeća na Amazon Mehanički Turčin, koji je gotovo zabavno.

    The users complete simple tasks that cannot (yet) be solved by computers, they call it artificial artificial intelligence.

    Tasks include selecting the picture which best represents a business storefront or rank your Top 3 establishments in a given city. Ti poslovi uključuju odabiru sliku koja najbolje predstavlja poslovni storefront ili rang Vaših Top 3 objekata u određenom gradu.

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