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> <channel><title>Comments on: Lockhart&#8217;s Lament</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Yukon Sam</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148755</link> <dc:creator>Yukon Sam</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:58:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148755</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Math, inasmuch as is learned by the end of high school, still has wrong answers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
At the high school level, the art lies in convincing your teacher that your answer is right, but the assumptions of the question are wrong.
If you can pull it off, you&#039;ve got a bright future in number theory.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Math, inasmuch as is learned by the end of high school, still has wrong answers.</p></blockquote><p>At the high school level, the art lies in convincing your teacher that your answer is right, but the assumptions of the question are wrong.</p><p>If you can pull it off, you&#8217;ve got a bright future in number theory.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sören</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148752</link> <dc:creator>Sören</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:26:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148752</guid> <description>@Eorilin: &quot;Language is all about rules too&quot; Right, logic derives from greek &quot;logos&quot; = word.
@Ralph: great article. As I&#039;ve studied mathematics, I continue to tell people that it is not about numbers and formulas but about pattern finding. Numbers and formulas only are one single expression of some of those patterns. Other expressions are: paintings, music, poetry. I remember a recent discovery, that patterns in arabic architectural decorations match the penrose tilings.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eorilin: &#8220;Language is all about rules too&#8221; Right, logic derives from greek &#8220;logos&#8221; = word.</p><p>@Ralph: great article. As I&#8217;ve studied mathematics, I continue to tell people that it is not about numbers and formulas but about pattern finding. Numbers and formulas only are one single expression of some of those patterns. Other expressions are: paintings, music, poetry. I remember a recent discovery, that patterns in arabic architectural decorations match the penrose tilings.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148713</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:24:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148713</guid> <description>@Eolirin,
I&#039;ve calmed down since last week, so I&#039;m not going to be ranting like I initially wanted to.  I did want to say, though, that I do feel that contrary to the author&#039;s opinion, mathematics is much much MUCH more heavily qualified than other artistic media.  Language has (post)modern freeform poetry, and other contexts where the rules have less application and going outside them isn&#039;t wrong.  Math, inasmuch as is learned by the end of high school, still has wrong answers.  The student is still constricted, though I will note that (less than) a hundred years ago English as a subject was every bit as restrictive.
You do have to learn the rules to know the best ways to break them, that&#039;s true for both as well.  And now I&#039;m thinkning of how one would compute an Anarchy Quotient for different modes of expression.  :P</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eolirin,</p><p>I&#8217;ve calmed down since last week, so I&#8217;m not going to be ranting like I initially wanted to.  I did want to say, though, that I do feel that contrary to the author&#8217;s opinion, mathematics is much much MUCH more heavily qualified than other artistic media.  Language has (post)modern freeform poetry, and other contexts where the rules have less application and going outside them isn&#8217;t wrong.  Math, inasmuch as is learned by the end of high school, still has wrong answers.  The student is still constricted, though I will note that (less than) a hundred years ago English as a subject was every bit as restrictive.</p><p>You do have to learn the rules to know the best ways to break them, that&#8217;s true for both as well.  And now I&#8217;m thinkning of how one would compute an Anarchy Quotient for different modes of expression. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Morgan Ramsay</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148703</link> <dc:creator>Morgan Ramsay</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:15:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148703</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the best math class I have ever had was my Geometry class&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In my high school geometry course, all I had to do was tell the teacher&#039;s assistant what grade I wanted. The instructor was too busy zoning out or sleeping off his hangover. He made all of his money from selling real estate anyway. That was definitely one of my favorite courses. Cautious me, I passed with a B+. ;)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the best math class I have ever had was my Geometry class</p></blockquote><p>In my high school geometry course, all I had to do was tell the teacher&#8217;s assistant what grade I wanted. The instructor was too busy zoning out or sleeping off his hangover. He made all of his money from selling real estate anyway. That was definitely one of my favorite courses. Cautious me, I passed with a B+. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Michael Chui</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148693</link> <dc:creator>Michael Chui</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:38:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148693</guid> <description>Hrm. In high school, I didn&#039;t pass trigonometry, but my teacher let me go on to the next level anyways. I always figured it was because he had a soft spot for me.
But if it was just freaking two weeks&#039; worth of material, what the hell did I miss? Also, the whole thing was kinda awesome.
&quot;Children are expected to master a complex set of algorithms for manipulating Hindi symbols, unrelated to any real desire or curiosity on their part, and regarded only a few centuries ago as too difficult for the average adult.&quot; &lt;3</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrm. In high school, I didn&#8217;t pass trigonometry, but my teacher let me go on to the next level anyways. I always figured it was because he had a soft spot for me.</p><p>But if it was just freaking two weeks&#8217; worth of material, what the hell did I miss? Also, the whole thing was kinda awesome.</p><p>&#8220;Children are expected to master a complex set of algorithms for manipulating Hindi symbols, unrelated to any real desire or curiosity on their part, and regarded only a few centuries ago as too difficult for the average adult.&#8221; &lt;3</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Math and Art &#171; Tish Tosh Tesh</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148686</link> <dc:creator>Math and Art &#171; Tish Tosh Tesh</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:38:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148686</guid> <description>[...] Koster brought &#8220;Lockhart&#8217;s Lament&#8221; to my attention, and it resonates with my experience.  I managed to find a deep fascination [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Koster brought &#8220;Lockhart&#8217;s Lament&#8221; to my attention, and it resonates with my experience.  I managed to find a deep fascination [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tesh</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148685</link> <dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:59:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148685</guid> <description>Perhaps ironically, the best math class I have ever had was my Geometry class in 8th grade.  The teacher let us take pretests on the chapters, and if we scored 90% or better, we could skip all of the homework for that chapter.  We had to attend class, but we could play chess, read his puzzle books or tinker with origami.
I skipped probably 40% of the homework for that class, played a lot of chess, and fostered a lifelong obsession with origami.  I spent a lot of time with puzzles.  I even derived a way to trisect an angle, which was thought to be impossible.  Of course, my method only worked on 90% angles, but still, it was a nice exercise in experimental thinking and challenging assumptions.  (And I proved to myself why my method wouldn&#039;t work on other angles, answering the questions that I put to myself.)
I got more out of that class than any other math class, college calculus included.  I still love math.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps ironically, the best math class I have ever had was my Geometry class in 8th grade.  The teacher let us take pretests on the chapters, and if we scored 90% or better, we could skip all of the homework for that chapter.  We had to attend class, but we could play chess, read his puzzle books or tinker with origami.</p><p>I skipped probably 40% of the homework for that class, played a lot of chess, and fostered a lifelong obsession with origami.  I spent a lot of time with puzzles.  I even derived a way to trisect an angle, which was thought to be impossible.  Of course, my method only worked on 90% angles, but still, it was a nice exercise in experimental thinking and challenging assumptions.  (And I proved to myself why my method wouldn&#8217;t work on other angles, answering the questions that I put to myself.)</p><p>I got more out of that class than any other math class, college calculus included.  I still love math.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Eolirin</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148675</link> <dc:creator>Eolirin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:49:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148675</guid> <description>Peter, Language is all about rules too, and any work of writing needs to follow them to be understandable, do we condemn writers as being &quot;creative but with qualifications&quot;? Hell, the writers we most praise are the ones that most closely follow the rules of the world they create as well, and we roughly condemn those that ignore internal consistency. I mean, what is a plot hole or an unbelievable event or character action that breaks suspension of disbelief except a violation of an unspoken rule? The only real difference is that in the authors case we recognize it merely as bad writing, and call it bad art. In the mathematician&#039;s case it&#039;s less ambiguously &lt;em&gt;wrong&lt;/em&gt;. But the difference is only in the degree of play between correct and incorrect, not in the core principle. Both are modes of expression.
(As an aside, I find the process of figuring out the problem to be the point in and of itself, so the fact that it&#039;s been solved already wouldn&#039;t bother me in the slightest. The fact that it was hard would make it worth it. I can understand that lots of people don&#039;t feel that way, but I doubt many of them become mathematicians either.)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, Language is all about rules too, and any work of writing needs to follow them to be understandable, do we condemn writers as being &#8220;creative but with qualifications&#8221;? Hell, the writers we most praise are the ones that most closely follow the rules of the world they create as well, and we roughly condemn those that ignore internal consistency. I mean, what is a plot hole or an unbelievable event or character action that breaks suspension of disbelief except a violation of an unspoken rule? The only real difference is that in the authors case we recognize it merely as bad writing, and call it bad art. In the mathematician&#8217;s case it&#8217;s less ambiguously <em>wrong</em>. But the difference is only in the degree of play between correct and incorrect, not in the core principle. Both are modes of expression.</p><p>(As an aside, I find the process of figuring out the problem to be the point in and of itself, so the fact that it&#8217;s been solved already wouldn&#8217;t bother me in the slightest. The fact that it was hard would make it worth it. I can understand that lots of people don&#8217;t feel that way, but I doubt many of them become mathematicians either.)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Yukon Sam</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148671</link> <dc:creator>Yukon Sam</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:29:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148671</guid> <description>Math is the chalk marks we make on infinity.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Math is the chalk marks we make on infinity.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brad Vender</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/06/25/lockharts-lament/comment-page-1/#comment-148670</link> <dc:creator>Brad Vender</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:23:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2951#comment-148670</guid> <description>In defense of high school geometry, I thought that the application of arbitrary rules and structures in order to solve a problem was a wonderful introduction to computer programming.
As an argument that applied mathematics is more than just application of wrote rules, this Lament is quite interesting.  From a practical standpoint, the basic wrote activities in math are still important to learn despite the calculator, just like spelling is still important to learn despite the spell checker.  (And, gosh, I&#039;m suddenly insecure about my spelling and grammar.  (;_;) )</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In defense of high school geometry, I thought that the application of arbitrary rules and structures in order to solve a problem was a wonderful introduction to computer programming.</p><p>As an argument that applied mathematics is more than just application of wrote rules, this Lament is quite interesting.  From a practical standpoint, the basic wrote activities in math are still important to learn despite the calculator, just like spelling is still important to learn despite the spell checker.  (And, gosh, I&#8217;m suddenly insecure about my spelling and grammar.  (;_;) )</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
