<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: OnLive: digital distribution play</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: OnLive Hits Big at the Game Developers Conference &#124; Seán Bulger</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-190500</link> <dc:creator>OnLive Hits Big at the Game Developers Conference &#124; Seán Bulger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2011 21:16:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-190500</guid> <description>[...] GDC so far, and while I may not be attending this year, everyone else on the Internet seems to be talking about it so far, so I feel like I should [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] GDC so far, and while I may not be attending this year, everyone else on the Internet seems to be talking about it so far, so I feel like I should [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nether</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146793</link> <dc:creator>Nether</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:26:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146793</guid> <description>Indeed G-cluster has done this already almost 10 years, so its nothing new. Their strategy is a bit different though; target audience is not hard-core gamers since they have PS3 anyway and the quality of 1.5MB stream is not sufficient for those gamers. Secondly G-cluster sells through IPTV operators that have dedicated networks and there is no need for yet another box (microconsole) since the existing IPTV STB acts as the console.
Let&#039;s say that the microconsole and gamepad costs 200USD to manufacture and the montly subscription fee of the service is 10USD; it takes 20 months for even pay back the hardware at home and how about the hardware in the datacenter..
I have not heard any facts on how many servers they need to run this service for, let&#039;s say 10k simultaneous users. Just for comparison you need only one VOD server for 10000 concurrent streams.
Or where this super data center is located that can serve all users i.e.who can actually access the service with decent latency.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed G-cluster has done this already almost 10 years, so its nothing new. Their strategy is a bit different though; target audience is not hard-core gamers since they have PS3 anyway and the quality of 1.5MB stream is not sufficient for those gamers. Secondly G-cluster sells through IPTV operators that have dedicated networks and there is no need for yet another box (microconsole) since the existing IPTV STB acts as the console.</p><p>Let&#8217;s say that the microconsole and gamepad costs 200USD to manufacture and the montly subscription fee of the service is 10USD; it takes 20 months for even pay back the hardware at home and how about the hardware in the datacenter..</p><p>I have not heard any facts on how many servers they need to run this service for, let&#8217;s say 10k simultaneous users. Just for comparison you need only one VOD server for 10000 concurrent streams.<br
/> Or where this super data center is located that can serve all users i.e.who can actually access the service with decent latency.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike Rozak</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146676</link> <dc:creator>Mike Rozak</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:41:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146676</guid> <description>I&#039;m watching the video now...
- 1.5 megabit = 675 megabytes per hour of play. This is slightly cheaper than my 1 gig/hour estimate. 720p is 4 megabits = 1.8 gigbytes per hour.
- This is no $10M startup. A LOT of money has been spent on this.
- They seem to have done a good job doing what they set out to.
- But until bandwidth becomes cheap enough to stream 120 hours of video per month, I don&#039;t see how this will work.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m watching the video now&#8230;</p><p>- 1.5 megabit = 675 megabytes per hour of play. This is slightly cheaper than my 1 gig/hour estimate. 720p is 4 megabits = 1.8 gigbytes per hour.</p><p>- This is no $10M startup. A LOT of money has been spent on this.</p><p>- They seem to have done a good job doing what they set out to.</p><p>- But until bandwidth becomes cheap enough to stream 120 hours of video per month, I don&#8217;t see how this will work.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: The Pastor</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146627</link> <dc:creator>The Pastor</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:30:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146627</guid> <description>This sounds very intriguing, but as far as the video streaming goes, 720p streaming works because of caching, and in a real-time game, caching is out of the question.
I could see this for single player games, maybe. But for Multi-User games I think synchronizing the different clients so that it plays &quot;real time&quot; will be a very daunting task.
If they accomplish it I would be very impressed.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds very intriguing, but as far as the video streaming goes, 720p streaming works because of caching, and in a real-time game, caching is out of the question.<br
/> I could see this for single player games, maybe. But for Multi-User games I think synchronizing the different clients so that it plays &#8220;real time&#8221; will be a very daunting task.<br
/> If they accomplish it I would be very impressed.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bertrand</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146626</link> <dc:creator>Bertrand</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:26:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146626</guid> <description>Well if it is viable, we might expect optical fiber to spread faster in response to their offer.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if it is viable, we might expect optical fiber to spread faster in response to their offer.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Yukon Sam</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146617</link> <dc:creator>Yukon Sam</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:33:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146617</guid> <description>It&#039;s good news for people with unmetered fat pipe. Does that describe a big enough segment of the base to really represent a serious challenge to traditional game distribution? I don&#039;t doubt that it&#039;s viable, but I do question whether it&#039;s going to be mainstream any time soon.
I hope I&#039;m wrong. Something like Second Life would be a LOT smoother if it was predigested by a high-octane rendering machine and fed out as video. Any environment that is subject to frequent and unpredictable changes in topography could benefit, which might be a boon for user-created content.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s good news for people with unmetered fat pipe. Does that describe a big enough segment of the base to really represent a serious challenge to traditional game distribution? I don&#8217;t doubt that it&#8217;s viable, but I do question whether it&#8217;s going to be mainstream any time soon.</p><p>I hope I&#8217;m wrong. Something like Second Life would be a LOT smoother if it was predigested by a high-octane rendering machine and fed out as video. Any environment that is subject to frequent and unpredictable changes in topography could benefit, which might be a boon for user-created content.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bertrand</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146612</link> <dc:creator>Bertrand</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:50:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146612</guid> <description>For those interested, here is the link to gamespot video
http://au.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/?series=on-the-spot&amp;event=on_the_spot20090324</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested, here is the link to gamespot video<br
/> <a
href="http://au.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/?series=on-the-spot&#038;event=on_the_spot20090324" rel="nofollow">http://au.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/?series=on-the-spot&#038;event=on_the_spot20090324</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike Rozak</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146611</link> <dc:creator>Mike Rozak</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:27:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146611</guid> <description>Eolirin...
Netbooks are separate issue. I think games should be designed for them. I think game developers will feel the same as the number of netbooks increase.
Rising hardware costs??? Hardware costs are falling all the time. It&#039;s the latest games that are designed for the latest graphics cards that require you to buy new hardware.
The games that OnLive is talking about (to be flippant) require so little CPU that they could run on an iPhone. I suspect they&#039;re spending more CPU compressing at 30 FPS than the games take generating the 30 FPS in the first place. Plus, they are using HUGE amounts of bandwidth, which still costs money.
On a sever, every gigabyte is around $0.10. From the customer&#039;s POV, every gigabyte costs them $2-$3 (at least in Australia where plans are limited to 14gig/month for $50-ish, and then extra for more, and/or severely limited bandwidth.)
A family&#039;s 2.2 kids can easily use 4 hours per day x 31 days = 120 hours. Assume 1 gig video per hour (DVD quality is more like 2 gig/hr... and by the way, DVD-quality isn&#039;t good enough for fast action games). That&#039;s 120 gigs. Will your ISP let you use 120 gigs a month for a standard rate? At $2-$3, that&#039;s $240-$360.
And that doesn&#039;t include the cost of the hardware at the remote site... where you&#039;d need 1 game device per 4(?) subscribers to meet peak-time demand. Don&#039;t forget, you also need an extra CPU (or more) to compress the images to send over the internet, and AC to cool off the server room. It means, that at best, OnLive gets a 75% hardware cost savings, but probably more like a 50%.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eolirin&#8230;</p><p>Netbooks are separate issue. I think games should be designed for them. I think game developers will feel the same as the number of netbooks increase.</p><p>Rising hardware costs??? Hardware costs are falling all the time. It&#8217;s the latest games that are designed for the latest graphics cards that require you to buy new hardware.</p><p>The games that OnLive is talking about (to be flippant) require so little CPU that they could run on an iPhone. I suspect they&#8217;re spending more CPU compressing at 30 FPS than the games take generating the 30 FPS in the first place. Plus, they are using HUGE amounts of bandwidth, which still costs money.</p><p>On a sever, every gigabyte is around $0.10. From the customer&#8217;s POV, every gigabyte costs them $2-$3 (at least in Australia where plans are limited to 14gig/month for $50-ish, and then extra for more, and/or severely limited bandwidth.)</p><p>A family&#8217;s 2.2 kids can easily use 4 hours per day x 31 days = 120 hours. Assume 1 gig video per hour (DVD quality is more like 2 gig/hr&#8230; and by the way, DVD-quality isn&#8217;t good enough for fast action games). That&#8217;s 120 gigs. Will your ISP let you use 120 gigs a month for a standard rate? At $2-$3, that&#8217;s $240-$360.</p><p>And that doesn&#8217;t include the cost of the hardware at the remote site&#8230; where you&#8217;d need 1 game device per 4(?) subscribers to meet peak-time demand. Don&#8217;t forget, you also need an extra CPU (or more) to compress the images to send over the internet, and AC to cool off the server room. It means, that at best, OnLive gets a 75% hardware cost savings, but probably more like a 50%.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Eolirin</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146607</link> <dc:creator>Eolirin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:37:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146607</guid> <description>@Mike, eh. How about wanting to play games on your PC without spending 500 dollars on a high end video card?
Or wanting to use your cheap super power efficent netbook as a gaming device?
And honestly, terminal machines have had a long and successful history in certain contexts, especially back when it was too expensive to have decent processing power at every local machine. With rising hardware costs, we&#039;re running into a similar situation (gaming hardware is too expensive for many people to afford), but now we can broadly distribute our terminals from the main servers thanks to broadband internet.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike, eh. How about wanting to play games on your PC without spending 500 dollars on a high end video card?</p><p>Or wanting to use your cheap super power efficent netbook as a gaming device?</p><p>And honestly, terminal machines have had a long and successful history in certain contexts, especially back when it was too expensive to have decent processing power at every local machine. With rising hardware costs, we&#8217;re running into a similar situation (gaming hardware is too expensive for many people to afford), but now we can broadly distribute our terminals from the main servers thanks to broadband internet.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/24/onlive-digital-distribution-play/comment-page-1/#comment-146606</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:28:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2669#comment-146606</guid> <description>It&#039;s all a matter of timing, though.  Already some of the news articles are leading with &quot;Play XXX hot game on your netbook!&quot;  Before, there wasn&#039;t much demand for any of those setups.  Now, the demand is already there (if the trend towards netbooks and cheaper computers continues).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all a matter of timing, though.  Already some of the news articles are leading with &#8220;Play XXX hot game on your netbook!&#8221;  Before, there wasn&#8217;t much demand for any of those setups.  Now, the demand is already there (if the trend towards netbooks and cheaper computers continues).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
