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> <channel><title>Comments on: Recent neuroscience summed up</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: INTJ, Bartle and Scorpion Dragons &#171; Tish Tosh Tesh</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-146225</link> <dc:creator>INTJ, Bartle and Scorpion Dragons &#171; Tish Tosh Tesh</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:58:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-146225</guid> <description>[...] Recent Neuroscience Summed Up [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Recent Neuroscience Summed Up [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: len</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145232</link> <dc:creator>len</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145232</guid> <description>You may want to substitute the term &quot;persisting behavior&quot; over &quot;addictive&quot;.  In the sense that Skinner proved the SR model and the effects of varying reward schedules and the varying strength relationship between onset to reward as a function of learning, yes any repetitive behavior that declines in frequency relative to reward scheduling qualifies.
The semantic of &quot;addiction&quot; has come to mean &#039;uncontrolled and harmful&#039; and opinions and evidence are not conclusive with respect to games.   I can certainly list examples of musicians who let the behavior drift into addictive range and cause harm.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may want to substitute the term &#8220;persisting behavior&#8221; over &#8220;addictive&#8221;.  In the sense that Skinner proved the SR model and the effects of varying reward schedules and the varying strength relationship between onset to reward as a function of learning, yes any repetitive behavior that declines in frequency relative to reward scheduling qualifies.</p><p>The semantic of &#8220;addiction&#8221; has come to mean &#8216;uncontrolled and harmful&#8217; and opinions and evidence are not conclusive with respect to games.   I can certainly list examples of musicians who let the behavior drift into addictive range and cause harm.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145231</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:02:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145231</guid> <description>Ack no, I don&#039;t remember getting that email! That&#039;s too bad, I would have been happy to do it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ack no, I don&#8217;t remember getting that email! That&#8217;s too bad, I would have been happy to do it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Eolirin</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145229</link> <dc:creator>Eolirin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:59:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145229</guid> <description>Playing or listening to Morgan? Or both? I&#039;m curious about that.
And I think that the &quot;argument&quot; is more the implied &quot;and this is a bad thing.&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Playing or listening to Morgan? Or both? I&#8217;m curious about that.</p><p>And I think that the &#8220;argument&#8221; is more the implied &#8220;and this is a bad thing.&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Morgan Ramsay</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145227</link> <dc:creator>Morgan Ramsay</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:09:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145227</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I have heard the argument that games cause a form of dopamine addiction several times, but nobody can tell me whether playing a musical instrument, for example, doesn’t cause a similar experience, which means that the argument is very one-sided.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Awhile ago, I saw a presentation by a Harvard professor of medicine that defined music as the equivalent of drugs, so no, the argument isn&#039;t one-sided.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I have heard the argument that games cause a form of dopamine addiction several times, but nobody can tell me whether playing a musical instrument, for example, doesn’t cause a similar experience, which means that the argument is very one-sided.</p></blockquote><p>Awhile ago, I saw a presentation by a Harvard professor of medicine that defined music as the equivalent of drugs, so no, the argument isn&#8217;t one-sided.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145224</link> <dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:50:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145224</guid> <description>Thanks for this Raph, much appreciated!
Did you get the email from me asking if you&#039;d be willing to write the introduction to this book? I never got a reply from you, alas, and I left it too late as I was stretched to my limit on the editing tasks. We had to go without an introduction in the end, which was unfortunate, but there&#039;s always the second edition.
Best wishes, and thanks again!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this Raph, much appreciated!</p><p>Did you get the email from me asking if you&#8217;d be willing to write the introduction to this book? I never got a reply from you, alas, and I left it too late as I was stretched to my limit on the editing tasks. We had to go without an introduction in the end, which was unfortunate, but there&#8217;s always the second edition.</p><p>Best wishes, and thanks again!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Malcolm Ryan</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145217</link> <dc:creator>Malcolm Ryan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:04:07 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145217</guid> <description>On the dopamine addiction angle, I have been looking in vain for something that demonstrates the presences or absence of a similar dopamine hit in other flow activities.
I have heard the argument that games cause a form of dopamine addiction several times, but nobody can tell me whether playing a musical instrument, for example, doesn&#039;t cause a similar experience, which means that the argument is very one-sided.
Ultimately every human experience, good or bad, is connected to chemicals in the brain, but somehow when games are explained in this way it makes them suspect, like hard drugs.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the dopamine addiction angle, I have been looking in vain for something that demonstrates the presences or absence of a similar dopamine hit in other flow activities.</p><p>I have heard the argument that games cause a form of dopamine addiction several times, but nobody can tell me whether playing a musical instrument, for example, doesn&#8217;t cause a similar experience, which means that the argument is very one-sided.</p><p>Ultimately every human experience, good or bad, is connected to chemicals in the brain, but somehow when games are explained in this way it makes them suspect, like hard drugs.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145216</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:30:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145216</guid> <description>&quot;Why You Play Games&quot; is a &lt;em&gt;fantastic&lt;/em&gt; article, and the other raises some interesting ideas too.
Thanks for linking them up, dude. I had an interesting thought about modeling the negative feedbacks that balance out these reward mechanisms, as alluded to in the article.  Unfortunately, I can&#039;t get the table to show up right here, but think of two axis (axes?), Predictability on the horizontal, Control on the vertical.  For the four extreme values, we have the following irritants:
Minimal Predictability, Minimal Control: Confusion
Minimal Predictability, Maximum Control: Frustration
Maximum Predictability, Minimal Control: Boredom
Maximum Predictability, Maximum Control: Repetitiveness
(if you want, you can put the tabs back in the following gunk:
Predictability
C   Max	---------------------------------
o	&#124;Repetitive	&#124;   Frustrating	&#124;
n	&#124;		&#124;		&#124;
t	&#124;-------------------------------&#124;
r	&#124;		&#124;		&#124;
o	&#124;Boring		&#124;     Confusing	&#124;
l   Min	---------------------------------
Min			     Max
)
Different people feel more control in different circumstances.
Different people have an easier time predicting different things.
Different people have different tolerances for the different kinds of discomfort, or for the more basic lack of a comfortable level of either predictability or control.
This, to me, would actually explain a lot of the negative-response behavior, and why people have the negative reactions to different things (PvP, too-hard puzzles, &quot;unfair&quot; games) that they do.  Assuming I&#039;m on the right track.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why You Play Games&#8221; is a <em>fantastic</em> article, and the other raises some interesting ideas too.</p><p>Thanks for linking them up, dude. I had an interesting thought about modeling the negative feedbacks that balance out these reward mechanisms, as alluded to in the article.  Unfortunately, I can&#8217;t get the table to show up right here, but think of two axis (axes?), Predictability on the horizontal, Control on the vertical.  For the four extreme values, we have the following irritants:</p><p>Minimal Predictability, Minimal Control: Confusion<br
/> Minimal Predictability, Maximum Control: Frustration<br
/> Maximum Predictability, Minimal Control: Boredom<br
/> Maximum Predictability, Maximum Control: Repetitiveness<br
/> (if you want, you can put the tabs back in the following gunk:<br
/> Predictability<br
/> C   Max	&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br
/> o	|Repetitive	|   Frustrating	|<br
/> n	|		|		|<br
/> t	|&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-|<br
/> r	|		|		|<br
/> o	|Boring		|     Confusing	|<br
/> l   Min	&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br
/> Min			     Max<br
/> )<br
/> Different people feel more control in different circumstances.<br
/> Different people have an easier time predicting different things.<br
/> Different people have different tolerances for the different kinds of discomfort, or for the more basic lack of a comfortable level of either predictability or control.</p><p>This, to me, would actually explain a lot of the negative-response behavior, and why people have the negative reactions to different things (PvP, too-hard puzzles, &#8220;unfair&#8221; games) that they do.  Assuming I&#8217;m on the right track.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: len</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/03/recent-neuroscience-summed-up/comment-page-1/#comment-145213</link> <dc:creator>len</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:53:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2584#comment-145213</guid> <description>Excellent.
And for those who can extrapolate, a good description of why political pundits such as Rush Limbaugh are incredibly successful or have been.
Then a uni-directional no-feedback medium gives way to multi-cast feedback mediated and a new set of media arrive just as the culture decides they are bored with the Girthy One.   Who are the experts now?
We are.  Pick up your prize. :-)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent.</p><p>And for those who can extrapolate, a good description of why political pundits such as Rush Limbaugh are incredibly successful or have been.</p><p>Then a uni-directional no-feedback medium gives way to multi-cast feedback mediated and a new set of media arrive just as the culture decides they are bored with the Girthy One.   Who are the experts now?</p><p>We are.  Pick up your prize. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
