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> <channel><title>Comments on: How well can indie games do?</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: How much money will your first game make? &#8211; Koonsolo Games</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-169400</link> <dc:creator>How much money will your first game make? &#8211; Koonsolo Games</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:28:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-169400</guid> <description>[...] are many more articles available on this topic, but none of them provide the answers you seek. That is until [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] are many more articles available on this topic, but none of them provide the answers you seek. That is until [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Create and sell your own games &#187; How much money will your first game make?</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-149162</link> <dc:creator>Create and sell your own games &#187; How much money will your first game make?</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:18:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-149162</guid> <description>[...] are many more articles available on this topic, but none of them provide the answers you seek. That is until [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] are many more articles available on this topic, but none of them provide the answers you seek. That is until [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: rascunho &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2009-01-20</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144169</link> <dc:creator>rascunho &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2009-01-20</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:26:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144169</guid> <description>[...] Raph’s Website » How well can indie games do? One takeaway here — it’s hard work, and for most, you can’t quit your day job. But there’s plenty of opportunity if you are determined and skillful. (tags: www.raphkoster.com 2009 mes0 dia19 games indie mercado estatísticas) [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Raph’s Website » How well can indie games do? One takeaway here — it’s hard work, and for most, you can’t quit your day job. But there’s plenty of opportunity if you are determined and skillful. (tags: <a
href="http://www.raphkoster.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.raphkoster.com</a> 2009 mes0 dia19 games indie mercado estatísticas) [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Gene Endrody</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144140</link> <dc:creator>Gene Endrody</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:24:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144140</guid> <description>&quot;independence placed closer to hobbyism and entrepreneurship in the middle&quot;
Independent is a term that says very little about the size of company and it&#039;s easy to jump to the wrong conclusions. I think any link between independence and hobbyism will exclude most successful independent game companies. Here&#039;s a few examples:
Before being purchased by VUG, Radical Entertainment called themselves the worlds largest independent game developer (200 employees at the time). For the most part they did licensed titles for large publishers and retained very little IP outside of their in-house game engine tech. Is that independent? (My opinion: Independant: No)
Jagex, Three Rings, Habbo do browser based MMOs. They&#039;ve retained their IP and all have over 100 employees. They have made deals with large portals (Miniclip, Addicting Games, etc.) for distribution, while doing a good percentage of distribution through their own sites as well. All three have also taken VC investment. Is that independent? (My opinion: Independant: Yes, Hobby: No)
MaidMarian.com (my company) is a cottage industry MMO developer. No outside funding, just me and my wife, no large portal deals although many loose arrangements with smaller game sites. It&#039;s not a big company, but it&#039;s not a hobby either - it&#039;s full time employment for two people. My income is substantially better than when I was working as a technical art director in the console industry. We probably have the most in common with the group Raph is talking about, although our revenues haven&#039;t been anywhere near as low as these examples since 2005. Are we independent? (My opinion:  Independant: Yes, Hobby: No)
All of the above are commercially viable. It&#039;s clear from some of the IGDA independent roundtables I&#039;ve attended at GDC, that there are those who consider any effort that is not based purely on artistic expression and that includes some form of commercial viability to be something other than independent. Perhaps it is this group you are refering to as hobbists, although they seem more the starving artist type to me. My opinion is that it&#039;s very difficult to sustain any sizable project for an extended period without commercial viability. Independance and IP retention are linked, but independance says very little about the size of the company, it&#039;s revenues, distrubution or investors.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;independence placed closer to hobbyism and entrepreneurship in the middle&#8221;</p><p>Independent is a term that says very little about the size of company and it&#8217;s easy to jump to the wrong conclusions. I think any link between independence and hobbyism will exclude most successful independent game companies. Here&#8217;s a few examples:</p><p>Before being purchased by VUG, Radical Entertainment called themselves the worlds largest independent game developer (200 employees at the time). For the most part they did licensed titles for large publishers and retained very little IP outside of their in-house game engine tech. Is that independent? (My opinion: Independant: No)</p><p>Jagex, Three Rings, Habbo do browser based MMOs. They&#8217;ve retained their IP and all have over 100 employees. They have made deals with large portals (Miniclip, Addicting Games, etc.) for distribution, while doing a good percentage of distribution through their own sites as well. All three have also taken VC investment. Is that independent? (My opinion: Independant: Yes, Hobby: No)</p><p>MaidMarian.com (my company) is a cottage industry MMO developer. No outside funding, just me and my wife, no large portal deals although many loose arrangements with smaller game sites. It&#8217;s not a big company, but it&#8217;s not a hobby either &#8211; it&#8217;s full time employment for two people. My income is substantially better than when I was working as a technical art director in the console industry. We probably have the most in common with the group Raph is talking about, although our revenues haven&#8217;t been anywhere near as low as these examples since 2005. Are we independent? (My opinion:  Independant: Yes, Hobby: No)</p><p>All of the above are commercially viable. It&#8217;s clear from some of the IGDA independent roundtables I&#8217;ve attended at GDC, that there are those who consider any effort that is not based purely on artistic expression and that includes some form of commercial viability to be something other than independent. Perhaps it is this group you are refering to as hobbists, although they seem more the starving artist type to me. My opinion is that it&#8217;s very difficult to sustain any sizable project for an extended period without commercial viability. Independance and IP retention are linked, but independance says very little about the size of the company, it&#8217;s revenues, distrubution or investors.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Morgan Ramsay</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144128</link> <dc:creator>Morgan Ramsay</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:36:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144128</guid> <description>I&#039;ve been hesistant to post here because I continue to struggle with how to classify independent development in terms of entrepreneurship. I&#039;m leaning toward using a spectrum of organizational sophistication, from hobbyism to conglomeracy with independence placed closer to hobbyism and entrepreneurship in the middle.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been hesistant to post here because I continue to struggle with how to classify independent development in terms of entrepreneurship. I&#8217;m leaning toward using a spectrum of organizational sophistication, from hobbyism to conglomeracy with independence placed closer to hobbyism and entrepreneurship in the middle.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ryan Henson Creighton</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144125</link> <dc:creator>Ryan Henson Creighton</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:14:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144125</guid> <description>We have earned just over forty dollars:
http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/feature-articles/pimp-my-game/
Lesson learned: unless your game is #1, ad rev share is completely useless.
But we just posted an interview with an iPhone developer who was successful enough to quit his dayjob:
http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/01/15/free-iphone-app-store-redemption-code-for-textropolis/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have earned just over forty dollars:</p><p><a
href="http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/feature-articles/pimp-my-game/" rel="nofollow">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/feature-articles/pimp-my-game/</a></p><p>Lesson learned: unless your game is #1, ad rev share is completely useless.</p><p>But we just posted an interview with an iPhone developer who was successful enough to quit his dayjob:</p><p><a
href="http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/01/15/free-iphone-app-store-redemption-code-for-textropolis/" rel="nofollow">http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/2009/01/15/free-iphone-app-store-redemption-code-for-textropolis/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144101</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:55:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144101</guid> <description>Maybe not enough to quit your day job, but a great augmentation to a day job (and better than flipping burgers to put yourself through college).
Heck, I only make around $40k a year.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe not enough to quit your day job, but a great augmentation to a day job (and better than flipping burgers to put yourself through college).</p><p>Heck, I only make around $40k a year.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chris</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144099</link> <dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:12:37 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144099</guid> <description>Thanks for posting this! These figures are not at all bad - it makes me want to give this space another go with a slightly more competent development partner. :)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this! These figures are not at all bad &#8211; it makes me want to give this space another go with a slightly more competent development partner. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nils</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144097</link> <dc:creator>Nils</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:31:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144097</guid> <description>Interesting numbers, even though they do not paint the whole picture.
I would love to know the stats for Spiderweb Software.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting numbers, even though they do not paint the whole picture.</p><p>I would love to know the stats for Spiderweb Software.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: WhineAboutGames</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/14/how-well-can-indie-games-do/comment-page-1/#comment-144090</link> <dc:creator>WhineAboutGames</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:05:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=2431#comment-144090</guid> <description>Well, the &quot;post your sales stats&quot; stuff started by people trying to show that you DIDN&#039;T have to sell through portals... cliff, who doesn&#039;t rely on them, makes an awful lot more in direct sales than the people who have a foot in portal waters.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the &#8220;post your sales stats&#8221; stuff started by people trying to show that you DIDN&#8217;T have to sell through portals&#8230; cliff, who doesn&#8217;t rely on them, makes an awful lot more in direct sales than the people who have a foot in portal waters.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
