<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: A brief history of botting</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: MrPopo's blog, page 5 - StumbleUpon</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-139406</link> <dc:creator>MrPopo's blog, page 5 - StumbleUpon</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:03:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-139406</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...]   [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...]   [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135985</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:48:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135985</guid> <description>Interesting.  I find myself agreeing with that ruling.  It would be fascinating if botting was determined (in a legal context) to be a form of vandalism here in the states, as that&#039;s what I read that ruling as stating.
I think a valid legal argument could be constructed to that effect.  The game company is offering a product/service whose value is being damaged by abusive activity.  Not to say there aren&#039;t counter-arguments as well, of course.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  I find myself agreeing with that ruling.  It would be fascinating if botting was determined (in a legal context) to be a form of vandalism here in the states, as that&#8217;s what I read that ruling as stating.</p><p>I think a valid legal argument could be constructed to that effect.  The game company is offering a product/service whose value is being damaged by abusive activity.  Not to say there aren&#8217;t counter-arguments as well, of course.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: #20 Botteja ja tekoälyttömyyttä - vieraana tutkija Leena Saarinen &#171; Sula Pinta</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135970</link> <dc:creator>#20 Botteja ja tekoälyttömyyttä - vieraana tutkija Leena Saarinen &#171; Sula Pinta</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:59:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135970</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Raph Koster muuten esittelee blogissaan &#8220;Bottien lyhyen historian&#8221;: http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Raph Koster muuten esittelee blogissaan &#8220;Bottien lyhyen historian&#8221;: <a
href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting" rel="nofollow">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting</a> [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135940</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:56:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135940</guid> <description>Just heard that in South Korea recently, a judge ruled against botfarmers on the grounds that
&lt;blockquote&gt;&#039;auto hunting Bots dismantles in-game system that is designed for real human play, and it let down the other player&#039;s fun, and it make game server overloaded. So the degree of its unlawfulness exceed that of Bots like Speedhack or GhostMouse.
Using autoBot leads to the publisher&#039;s financial loss. and the more autoBots spreadinf, the more RMT flourishing, the less the order of game keeping.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just heard that in South Korea recently, a judge ruled against botfarmers on the grounds that</p><blockquote><p>&#8216;auto hunting Bots dismantles in-game system that is designed for real human play, and it let down the other player&#8217;s fun, and it make game server overloaded. So the degree of its unlawfulness exceed that of Bots like Speedhack or GhostMouse.</p><p>Using autoBot leads to the publisher&#8217;s financial loss. and the more autoBots spreadinf, the more RMT flourishing, the less the order of game keeping.</p></blockquote> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135938</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:48:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135938</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They have almost identical effects in terms of tuning and balancing. In fact, they are basically the same thing in a strict mechanical point of view. The end result of the former is accomplishing the latter, and the end result of the latter is sometimes to make everything into the former.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hm, I can see how they would be the same from that point of view, and I agree that they end up amounting to the same thing in the long run.  I do think there&#039;s an experiential difference between the two, however.  If I were going to refine the distinction, I think it would be between things a person can and cannot do without mechanical aid.  The latter represents a greater emotional grievance to me, as it more directly represents a barrier to my enjoyment (&quot;Dude, quit trying.  You&#039;re not going to win, he&#039;s using an aim-bot.&quot;).
Both types of botting lead to an arms race, of sorts, but the latter &lt;em&gt;feels&lt;/em&gt; more absolute in terms of haves and not haves.  To me, anyway.  Tell me I can&#039;t win, and I&#039;m just going to walk away.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They have almost identical effects in terms of tuning and balancing. In fact, they are basically the same thing in a strict mechanical point of view. The end result of the former is accomplishing the latter, and the end result of the latter is sometimes to make everything into the former.</p></blockquote><p>Hm, I can see how they would be the same from that point of view, and I agree that they end up amounting to the same thing in the long run.  I do think there&#8217;s an experiential difference between the two, however.  If I were going to refine the distinction, I think it would be between things a person can and cannot do without mechanical aid.  The latter represents a greater emotional grievance to me, as it more directly represents a barrier to my enjoyment (&#8220;Dude, quit trying.  You&#8217;re not going to win, he&#8217;s using an aim-bot.&#8221;).</p><p>Both types of botting lead to an arms race, of sorts, but the latter <em>feels</em> more absolute in terms of haves and not haves.  To me, anyway.  Tell me I can&#8217;t win, and I&#8217;m just going to walk away.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Your page is now on StumbleUpon!</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135918</link> <dc:creator>Your page is now on StumbleUpon!</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:53:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135918</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135906</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:04:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135906</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think a distinction needs to be made between bots that automate tedious tasks and bots that enhance player skills or abilities. Otherwise I think we have two overlapping discussions on two very different sorts of game impacts and effects.
The former doesn’t personally bother me to any great degree, though I see how it harms things (potentially). The latter is the sort of thing that can ruin a game for me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They have almost identical effects in terms of tuning and balancing. In fact, they are basically the same thing in a strict mechanical point of view. The end result of the former is accomplishing the latter, and the end result of the latter is sometimes to make everything into the former.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think a distinction needs to be made between bots that automate tedious tasks and bots that enhance player skills or abilities. Otherwise I think we have two overlapping discussions on two very different sorts of game impacts and effects.</p><p>The former doesn’t personally bother me to any great degree, though I see how it harms things (potentially). The latter is the sort of thing that can ruin a game for me.</p></blockquote><p>They have almost identical effects in terms of tuning and balancing. In fact, they are basically the same thing in a strict mechanical point of view. The end result of the former is accomplishing the latter, and the end result of the latter is sometimes to make everything into the former.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Peter S.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135905</link> <dc:creator>Peter S.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:00:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135905</guid> <description>I think a distinction needs to be made between bots that automate tedious tasks and bots that enhance player skills or abilities.  Otherwise I think we have two overlapping discussions on two very different sorts of game impacts and effects.
The former doesn&#039;t personally bother me to any great degree, though I see how it harms things (potentially).  The latter is the sort of thing that can ruin a game for me.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a distinction needs to be made between bots that automate tedious tasks and bots that enhance player skills or abilities.  Otherwise I think we have two overlapping discussions on two very different sorts of game impacts and effects.</p><p>The former doesn&#8217;t personally bother me to any great degree, though I see how it harms things (potentially).  The latter is the sort of thing that can ruin a game for me.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Lasse</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135886</link> <dc:creator>Lasse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:21:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135886</guid> <description>@Ric
The achievement invested in hitting level 70 isn&#039;t really achievement.
It&#039;s payment. You pay, using one of the highest value currencies (due to its rarity): Personal free time. Attention. Eyes. It&#039;s the currency that the games require you to pay in order to pay back in access to new content and abilities.
Most people think that they already paid for that content with money when they bought the box, and some might resent having to pay twice, even if they don&#039;t realise what the actual resentment is.
So in fact you pay twice to play the game: In money to get access to the game itself, and in time to get content (either through levels or through in-game currency).
For someone with little free time and some free cash, it&#039;s obvious to look for a way to convert free money directly to access to content. This brings us gold-selling and leveling services.
For someone with little free time and no free cash, the choices are fewer. You have to generate &quot;time&quot;. This is where unattended botting comes in. It creates &quot;free time&quot; by simulating player attention.
As long as the goal is what drives the player, not enjoyment of the journey, I fully understand the urge to use a bot to get to the goal faster. Unattended botting is the extreme example, but any technical aid that increases your rate of progress is really doing the same thing, only to a different degree.
Maybe it&#039;s the curse of MMORPGs that they want to restrict access in order to have something to pay back as rewards. I would love to hear an idea for a MMO that gave all content away from the start (no leveling, no acquireing abilities through &quot;work&quot;, only configuration differs between players), but that would still be able to keep people playing. Or perhaps it exists and is called Second Life. Or Quake.
/L</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ric<br
/> The achievement invested in hitting level 70 isn&#8217;t really achievement.<br
/> It&#8217;s payment. You pay, using one of the highest value currencies (due to its rarity): Personal free time. Attention. Eyes. It&#8217;s the currency that the games require you to pay in order to pay back in access to new content and abilities.</p><p>Most people think that they already paid for that content with money when they bought the box, and some might resent having to pay twice, even if they don&#8217;t realise what the actual resentment is.</p><p>So in fact you pay twice to play the game: In money to get access to the game itself, and in time to get content (either through levels or through in-game currency).</p><p>For someone with little free time and some free cash, it&#8217;s obvious to look for a way to convert free money directly to access to content. This brings us gold-selling and leveling services.</p><p>For someone with little free time and no free cash, the choices are fewer. You have to generate &#8220;time&#8221;. This is where unattended botting comes in. It creates &#8220;free time&#8221; by simulating player attention.</p><p>As long as the goal is what drives the player, not enjoyment of the journey, I fully understand the urge to use a bot to get to the goal faster. Unattended botting is the extreme example, but any technical aid that increases your rate of progress is really doing the same thing, only to a different degree.</p><p>Maybe it&#8217;s the curse of MMORPGs that they want to restrict access in order to have something to pay back as rewards. I would love to hear an idea for a MMO that gave all content away from the start (no leveling, no acquireing abilities through &#8220;work&#8221;, only configuration differs between players), but that would still be able to keep people playing. Or perhaps it exists and is called Second Life. Or Quake.</p><p>/L</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bloggers &#124; The Cesspit.</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/comment-page-1/#comment-135878</link> <dc:creator>Bloggers &#124; The Cesspit.</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:01:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/25/a-brief-history-of-botting/#comment-135878</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] the window. I think it wants something. Source: BrokenToys - Lum Categories: Bloggers    18:32  A brief history of botting It’s funny to see how the old debates sometimes just don’t change — they just move from being [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] the window. I think it wants something. Source: BrokenToys &#8211; Lum Categories: Bloggers    18:32  A brief history of botting It’s funny to see how the old debates sometimes just don’t change — they just move from being [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
