[...] a debate between two bloggers about the merits of the eradication or the endorsement of RMT. Part 2. (No need to read part 1 but it is linked in part 2) Part 3 Last part.(for now) The second is a very good translation of an article from a chinese [...]

-It’s easy to Farm…when you have an infinite amount of MOBs that are a hop, skip, and jump away…
-Instances make it so that you can farm in peace…
-Developers believe that they have to give worth to there money system…by creating out of control money sinks…
-Creating items that only a small percentage of the world get to have…
-Putting to much worth into a item centric design…It’s the easiest design element to hook a player.
-you can not stop RMT…as long as there is anything of value that 2 people can trade (and remember value is relative to the individual)..be it items or services…there will be RMT.
-As long as Time spent in MMORPG = Power…there will be RMT in MMORPGs…where in the Real World…people who have Money and no time…will trade a little of their Money, for some Power in the MMORPG World…

[...] was essentially asking designers to remove the ‘Massive’ element from online games. He argued that the only real way to prevent RMT or power-leveling would be to disallow players from conversing, grouping, trading, or interacting in any meaningful [...]

[...] : His response to Raph’s post pertaining to Livegamer as well as to RMT curbing.Raph : In response to Tobold.Tobold : Again.Raph : Another response.Tobold is a game player whereas Raph is a game [...]

[...] My response [...]

[...] was a bit of back and forth and back and forth recently between Tobold and Raph on the old RMT debate. What it comes down to, [...]

I welcome an exclusive subculture which appeal to a narrow demography, as I don’t think putting opposing fundamentalists into the same environment makes for great enjoyment. I welcome elitistic thinking. If the majority of whiners and zealous competitors never join the world, then that’s great, IMO. I suspect many here assume a world that appeals to everybody, a world the multitudes of average-joes would enjoy, a mainstream game with whiners included… Well, then perhaps trade is the only interest these people have in common so that would be the only social glue that would stick..? But why aim for this? The only reason I can think of is… profit? *shrugs* Just a thought very late at night. Merry Christmas!

Tobold: “You can eradicate RMT (his words) by making gold be bind on pickup.” Note the word “eradicate.”

Me: “That wouldn’t work to eradicate RMT because it’s still full of exploits, you would have to go whole hog instead, including taking steps X, Y, and Z, and I think that’s a bad idea because of the following negative consequences… and by the way, this anonymous third party said this other stuff, so I am going to be very sarcastic towards them.”

Tobold: “You just don’t like new ideas, and I never suggested doing X, Y and Z.”

Me: “You’re right, you didn’t. I said that in order to accomplish your goal you would need to take those steps, and here’s why, again, at length, including past and current examples of people who have done what you suggest, documents giving detailed designs, and several screens worth of supporting argument.”

How is that a straw man?

Now, YOUR comment, on the other hand…

For reference http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#straw

I also think both WoW and EQ2 did a pretty good (but different) job of localizing the activity of commerce to those who expect it where they are, and within the context of the worlds.

I think in-game market systems driven by only mail and auction functions are incredibly limiting. I would prefer a combination of the mail and auction systems from World of Warcraft, the be-your-own-shopkeeper system from Knight Online, the player-to-player trading system from Diablo 2, and the resource and property systems from Ultima Online.

UO had that, I think at launch, but definitely during the year+ I played just prior to and after Renaissance launched.

On the free shard where I played, you could only scribe spell scrolls and nothing more. I also proposed a more intricate banking system and a comprehensive in-game elected player government system, but the shard developers thought they were "too realistic." I still think being an in-game player government official would be cool.

Imagine if players in Ultima Online had to acquire permit approval from the Brittania city council, or if players could bribe other players (like player government officials.) There would be special quests for players elected to the in-game government, such as orders from the King. Or if a thieves’ guild was having problems with player constable, they could post a reward for the assassination of the player constable. I believe some of this stuff was later in Star Wars Galaxies.