Comments on: Webs.com: a case study of “design for everywhere” http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/ Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nexushttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-131091 Nexus Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:28:02 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-131091 One startling trial by fire we all undergo is the evidence that simple, simple minded, crude, even sub-optimal, is often as successful as refined, sophisticated or feature-laden in meeting user expectations, which are none. This is easily exploited in any HCI opportunity by those that design agressively as opposed to optimally. The "wrong" way to make something is to obstruct the user's ability to achieve their own perception of the goal in the activity. One startling trial by fire we all undergo is the evidence that simple, simple minded, crude, even sub-optimal, is often as successful as refined, sophisticated or feature-laden in meeting user expectations, which are none.

This is easily exploited in any HCI opportunity by those that design agressively as opposed to optimally. The “wrong” way to make something is to obstruct the user’s ability to achieve their own perception of the goal in the activity.

]]> By: Des jeux partout « Polen’s bloghttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-131085 Des jeux partout « Polen’s blog Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:00:49 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-131085 [...] insignifiants que puisse paraitre ces jeux, ils ont attiré l’attention de Raph Koster, grand concepteur de jeux devant l’Eternel (il est derrière le célèbre Ultima Online et le [...]

[...] insignifiants que puisse paraitre ces jeux, ils ont attiré l’attention de Raph Koster, grand concepteur de jeux devant l’Eternel (il est derrière le célèbre Ultima Online et le [...]

]]> By: InternetActu.net » Des jeux partouthttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-131084 InternetActu.net » Des jeux partout Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:46:33 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-131084

[...] insignifiants que puisse paraitre ces jeux, ils ont attir l’attention de Raph Koster, grand concepteur de jeux devant l’Eternel (il est derrire le clbre Ultima Online et le [...]

]]> By: Morgan Ramsayhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130945 Morgan Ramsay Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:52:11 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130945 <blockquote>I do appreciate the fact that it is content which drives social interaction.</blockquote> I'd just like to add that content doesn't drive social interaction; social interaction drives content. Content just keeps socialization interesting, or in some cases, makes interaction much less so.

I do appreciate the fact that it is content which drives social interaction.

I’d just like to add that content doesn’t drive social interaction; social interaction drives content.

Content just keeps socialization interesting, or in some cases, makes interaction much less so.

]]> By: rascunho » Blog Archive » links for 2007-12-13http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130931 rascunho » Blog Archive » links for 2007-12-13 Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:43 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130931 [...] Raph’s Website » Webs.com: a case study of “design for everywhere” Dean Takahashi has a nice article up on the makers of Warbook. It’s a great example of games built under that “design for everywhere” pattern that I have been talking about for the last few months. (tags: www.raphkoster.com 2007 mes11 dia13 at_tecp games Facebook OpenSocial webs.com design_for_everywhere passive_web_gaming Warbook Raph_Koster) [...]

[...] Raph’s Website » Webs.com: a case study of “design for everywhere” Dean Takahashi has a nice article up on the makers of Warbook. It’s a great example of games built under that “design for everywhere” pattern that I have been talking about for the last few months. (tags: http://www.raphkoster.com 2007 mes11 dia13 at_tecp games Facebook OpenSocial webs.com design_for_everywhere passive_web_gaming Warbook Raph_Koster) [...]

]]> By: Gene Endrodyhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130926 Gene Endrody Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:20:29 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130926 "Spoken like a business major" I'm not sure if that was for me or JuJutsu, however game/activity design is a tool that can be used for different purposes. You will only advance the medium if people see and like your creation. Right now there's so much navel gazing and self referencing going on in the mainstream games industry, that little games and activities like this challenge preconceptions. So in a small way, they do advance the medium. “Spoken like a business major” I’m not sure if that was for me or JuJutsu, however game/activity design is a tool that can be used for different purposes. You will only advance the medium if people see and like your creation. Right now there’s so much navel gazing and self referencing going on in the mainstream games industry, that little games and activities like this challenge preconceptions. So in a small way, they do advance the medium.

]]> By: Gene Endrodyhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130925 Gene Endrody Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:03:12 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130925 "I’d summarize this as an ‘activity’ more than a ‘game’." You could make an argument either way, but either way you're right on. Habbo often creates activities which can be easily argued are not games. My own Club Marian is not a game, it's more of a social space with activities. However what they have in common with *real games* is that a designer can experiment with emergence. Once you get a feel for what user's might do with the toys you throw into the world, you can create an experience that is very sticky because the players think they are the authors of the activities. That, particularly for teens, builds a community and then it's the community that becomes sticky. “I’d summarize this as an ‘activity’ more than a ‘game’.” You could make an argument either way, but either way you’re right on. Habbo often creates activities which can be easily argued are not games. My own Club Marian is not a game, it’s more of a social space with activities. However what they have in common with *real games* is that a designer can experiment with emergence. Once you get a feel for what user’s might do with the toys you throw into the world, you can create an experience that is very sticky because the players think they are the authors of the activities. That, particularly for teens, builds a community and then it’s the community that becomes sticky.

]]> By: chashttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130909 chas Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:01:00 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130909 I haven't tried Street Race but I've seen some interesting game strategies come from the "random number" games like it. The "gameplay" isn't in the act of racing, but in the act of identifying what foe to strike and how to minimize being struck by a foe. Oftentimes there's a limit to how often you can engage a foe and how long you're then open for another foe to race you. Making the most of that time is the key "gameplay" that emerges. In similar games, the reward you get is dependent on the "purse" of your adversary. Choose too easy a target and he's likely already picked dry. Choose too inactive a target and he won't have much cash. You want an foe that's active enough to have a large purse, but not so much that his stats would kill you. Think of it as primarily a strategy game, with the "race" button more of a "I commit to my move" act in chess- all the maneuvering (albiet a small amount) is done before the click I haven’t tried Street Race but I’ve seen some interesting game strategies come from the “random number” games like it. The “gameplay” isn’t in the act of racing, but in the act of identifying what foe to strike and how to minimize being struck by a foe. Oftentimes there’s a limit to how often you can engage a foe and how long you’re then open for another foe to race you. Making the most of that time is the key “gameplay” that emerges.

In similar games, the reward you get is dependent on the “purse” of your adversary. Choose too easy a target and he’s likely already picked dry. Choose too inactive a target and he won’t have much cash. You want an foe that’s active enough to have a large purse, but not so much that his stats would kill you.

Think of it as primarily a strategy game, with the “race” button more of a “I commit to my move” act in chess- all the maneuvering (albiet a small amount) is done before the click

]]> By: Kerri Knighthttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130889 Kerri Knight Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:22 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130889 Okay, here's where I get to show my lack of game theory understanding :9. Took me about an hour of digging to find the understanding games stuff, again. While this game does follow the rule that outcomes must be uncertain, does 'random' qualify? All I can see is random number generator, granted the likeliness of an outcome can be affected by what I can only define as 'stat mods'. This is a system that simply rewards frequent participation via power creep, not user competence. I don't see much in the way of challenges to overcome, I'd summarize this as an 'activity' more than a 'game'. I do appreciate the fact that it is <em>content which drives social interaction</em>. I'm also completely fine with the idea that people do it and enjoy it. Again, maybe I'm showing my 'enthusiast with no experience' tag here, but is rewarding purely on participation vs. rewarding based on outcome a real defining attribute of games or am I splitting hairs? Okay, here’s where I get to show my lack of game theory understanding :9.

Took me about an hour of digging to find the understanding games stuff, again. While this game does follow the rule that outcomes must be uncertain, does ‘random’ qualify? All I can see is random number generator, granted the likeliness of an outcome can be affected by what I can only define as ‘stat mods’. This is a system that simply rewards frequent participation via power creep, not user competence. I don’t see much in the way of challenges to overcome, I’d summarize this as an ‘activity’ more than a ‘game’. I do appreciate the fact that it is content which drives social interaction. I’m also completely fine with the idea that people do it and enjoy it.

Again, maybe I’m showing my ‘enthusiast with no experience’ tag here, but is rewarding purely on participation vs. rewarding based on outcome a real defining attribute of games or am I splitting hairs?

]]> By: Matt Fisherhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-130878 Matt Fisher Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:57:43 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/12/webscom-a-case-study-of-design-for-everywhere/#comment-130878 Spoken like a business major - if your only standard of success is return on investment, then I agree. A million page views in a day for a mini app that could probably be banged out in a couple of weekends by a single person? quite remarkable. Personally, though, I'm more concerned about a quality experience, and advancing the medium. (Which I suppose is a luxury) I don't see that StreetRace does either, other than showing that in a world where served impressions is king, (though I maintain that that world isn't this one just yet) you don't really need a product, just a marketing gimmick. Spoken like a business major – if your only standard of success is return on investment, then I agree. A million page views in a day for a mini app that could probably be banged out in a couple of weekends by a single person? quite remarkable.

Personally, though, I’m more concerned about a quality experience, and advancing the medium. (Which I suppose is a luxury) I don’t see that StreetRace does either, other than showing that in a world where served impressions is king, (though I maintain that that world isn’t this one just yet) you don’t really need a product, just a marketing gimmick.

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