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Thom Robertson prototypes Drywall: The Game

October 16th, 2007 (Visited 2742 times) Tags:

Peter S., you should feel very very happy right now. Thom Robertson is one of the most badass devs I know, and he took up the challenge and prototyped your drywalling game design.
Thom Robertsons Personal Blog – Drywall: The Game!

You can play in a browser, or grab the downloadable version.

So, now everyone needs to post what the refinements are, since you’re getting to see a prototype. Peter, given your audience’s feedback, what are you going to change?

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Lag-O-Rama: Friday Free-For-All: Special "Nega-Uber" Edition wrote on October 19th, 2007 at 8:38 am:

[...] someone actually creates a design for (awesome job, Peter!), which leads us to the one…the only…Drywall Minigame! (Now, what have you accomplished today?)Halflife Source is reporting that Red Planet LLC is in [...]

Reader Comments

Tony said on October 16th, 2007 at 8:59 am:
Shame OSX doesn’t know how to handle OSAKitProPlayer.exe.

Damn it, I was way too excited to shoot that nail gun.
Raph said on October 16th, 2007 at 9:38 am:

I think it is Win only, alas.
Josh Goldshlag said on October 16th, 2007 at 10:25 am:
Well, for starters he might want to change the tool. Drywall is usually put up with screws, though some folks like to nail it, but always with a hammer, never a nail gun.
Ferum said on October 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm:
Rats! Windows only….
Morgan Ramsay said on October 16th, 2007 at 4:53 pm:
Well, for starters he might want to change the tool. Drywall is usually put up with screws, though some folks like to nail it, but always with a hammer, never a nail gun.

Given what the Three Rings office designers have said about construction methodology, I think it’s safe to say that it’s okay to do something out of the ordinary in a game because most construction folks won’t dare to do so in multibillion-dollar projects.
Peter S. said on October 16th, 2007 at 5:02 pm:
I have been saying “Oh my god!” to myself ever since I saw this while at work.

Oh. My. God.

Wow. I’m stunned. In a rough sense, that was what I was picturing and I’m actually playing it! I am deeply honored, not to mention giddy (My audience’s feedback?! Whoa.).

I’ve been thinking about this since lunchtime today, so forgive me if I ramble on. Looking at the feedback I see, I’ll look at two ideas, first about the stud finder and hints, then the note that the proper tool would be a screwdriver or a hammer, not a nailgun. I’m not going to pass up a chance to play my own game of Game Developer here, so please indulge me.

In my own imagination, the stud finder was a small circle of X-ray vision, letting you peek through the wall but still requiring a little bit of detective work to use. I really like the hint that the prototype gives, though, as I’m quickly finding I’m not very good at this game (yet!). Then there’s the third idea about how a real studfinder works, with just a flashing light and a beep to tell you whether a stud is under it or not (and a need for calibration on top of that). So, what would be best? (I can even see a Realism vs. Fun thing taking shape already… heh heh, wow).

So, personally I like the thought of having some way to see the whole layout, and the suggestion that it could involve rolling out blueprints to create a time penalty is a good one. I’d definitely vote to keep or put that in. Having a separate stud finder tool, then, might give a quicker but smaller peek at the immediate area near the pointer, for when you know you’re close and want to make sure you don’t wander away from the wood. The question here becomes, how much of a hint does the player feel they need? Would just having some sort of visual or audio feedback for a hit versus a miss be enough, maybe? I’d start with the simpler (and more Realistic) blinkling lights studfinder first, and if people felt that wasn’t helpful enough, maybe I’d move up to having X-ray specs… though right away, what about people that scribble the mouse over the playing field to get a quick peek at everything? Will people accuse each other of haxxing Drywall? I would hope not, but…

Now, looking at screwdrivers, I didn’t know nailguns weren’t used on drywall (my experience with my dad as a kid involved good ol’ Hammer; my dad was in construction). A screwdriver could add some interesting options (Feature Creep already… I feel all professional, heh). What if you had to hold down the mouse long enough to get the screw in? What if you had to hold it down *just* long enough, or you’d hurt the drywall if you didn’t let up? You could even have less powerful and more powerful screwdriver models, the former easier to get just right, the latter riskier but potentially faster… and if there were multiple models I’d say you really have to have some penalty for holding the button down too long, otherwise it’s not a tradeoff but a case of the best tools winning (“Go grind suburbs more, n00b!”).

But, as awesome as it would be to hear and feel the whirr of the power screwdriver coming from the Wiimote, would that still be fun? Would that slow the game down too much? Would it feel frustrating having to get each screw just right? Might it even get physically uncomfortable more quickly than the fire-and-forget nailgun approach? For that matter, how big of a margin of error would feel right? Multiple possible screwdrivers might address that, but either way that’s a whole lot of playtesting and possible re-development for what would be a very small part of a much larger whole.

…okay, whoa, let me decompress for a moment and go back to being giddy. I seriously cannot believe my odd idea for a Drywall mini-game was really *made* by a super-powered game creator (THANK YOU, Thom Robertson!). I cannot *believe* that THE Raph Koster thought my idea was badass (THANK YOU, Raph!). I’m indeed very, very happy, not to mention excited and flattered to boot. Now I gotta go call all my friends…

Hope you all achieve awesome Drywall scores,

Peter S.
George said on October 16th, 2007 at 6:38 pm:
Just for the record, a power screwgun (which comes with a self-feeding clip, by the way) will drive a screw pretty darn fast.

George “remodeling is my day job” Oliver
Markimedes said on October 16th, 2007 at 8:07 pm:
I got the high score… =D

That’s all I have to say, tis fun.
taolurker said on October 16th, 2007 at 10:01 pm:
You HAD the high score… lol

:p
Sanz said on October 17th, 2007 at 6:56 am:
Sorry. I didn’t like it even a little bit.
T. Carl said on October 17th, 2007 at 9:42 am:
A lot of things would be vastly improved with the player feedback polish that would come with the iteration towards finality, but overall an awesome prototype of a very strong idea.

I think realism vs fun should trend towards fun within the mini-games, however it could also be used for a professionality score. Nail-gun is easier and faster, but doesn’t give you as good durability score as the Screw-”gun” but that takes more finesse and prolly not as fast unless you get really good.

Stud finder basic will keep you on the cheap, but wont’ give you as good hints and super-duper-stud finder of awesomeness, but thats more costly and inflicts more of a time-penalty for calibration if you use it at all (though it only hits you with that cost once?)
Peter S. said on October 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pm:
Thanks, George, for the tip on modern screwguns. If all it takes to be more realistic is a graphic swap and a really cool “Rrrzzzzzzz!” noise, them I’m definitely all for it. Doubly so if it means adding vibrational feedback to the potential console controller.

Also, thanks for the compliment, Carl. Good thoughts on the stud-finder, too. I could even see a reason, with that, for a player to own more than one of them: do I just need a quick little hint, or do I feel I’m way off (or maybe, is this a way more complicated layout than I’m used to)? Giving the player the meaningful choice of which tool to reach for would be cool.
Ferum said on October 17th, 2007 at 1:36 pm:
I could have sworn I saw a guy on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition using a nail gun to put up drywall, and they do make drywall nails. I’m no contractor though so I won’t argue.
Morgan Ramsay said on October 17th, 2007 at 4:45 pm:
Just call the tool “Ultimate Drywall Powersealer X-2000″ and be done with it. Focus on gameplay.
Bissrok said on October 17th, 2007 at 6:35 pm:
I thought the hint gave too much away, and it made it a little too easy. It was fun, though.

If it was part of something bigger, I think it would have been a lot more interesting. I mean, if I was putting up drywall for a structure I was actually trying to build, it might be more interesting than just doing random puzzles. If I bought equipment (screwdriver, “Ultimate Drywall Powersealer X-2000″, different quality screws) and had a set budget, it’d spice things up a bit.

I think I’d prefer it to be slower paced, though, with more focus on putting the nails/screws in a straight line, focusing on the number of nails you’re using (so you’re not jamming in 20 every inch or so), or just efficiency in general. I mean, aren’t they into that whole “measure twice, cut once” thing? I’d rather the only time penalty come from the overall project so, if I want to spend more time making my drywall the best the world has ever seen, I would have to spend less time on landscaping (or whatever).

I think there might also need to be a system to bypass this sort of thing, with a penalty of some sort. That way, if you’re tired of one system, or if you’re in a hurry, you don’t need to play the same minigame over and over again. I guess you could always hire someone else to do it, though..
Lobosolitario said on October 18th, 2007 at 12:21 am:
While stud-finders are good fun, and hi-tech, a nice pair of pencil lines either side of where the studs are tend to do the trick just as well

How about putting in an option to mark the drywal before starting? Time taken marking would subtract from the total time taken, and it would be impossible to see the studs after starting, just your lines, and an option to use a stud-finder.
Peter S. said on October 18th, 2007 at 11:30 am:
I think the very general, high-level principle in such a game would be “Time Spent By People Doing Things Costs Money”, or something close to that. I’m thinking something like Gauntlet, where your health drained slowly over time, but in this case it would be the construction company’s bank account being slowly drained to represent the salaries/wages of the people working (just on a minute-by-minute basis).

In my mind, thus, there is a constant-but-mild time pressure. Sure, you could have someone draw lines on drywall beforehand, but will you come out ahead on the deal? It’s yet another strategic decision, so that would be a good thing, especially if people had different salaries or, even better, if people brought different skills to the game (“I’m not good at twitch games, but I can draw really well. Are there any jobs for me?”). That would also be why anything that slows a process down is to be avoided (and why such things are penalties), not because you get dinged for it right away, but because they all add up over time.

On the thought of salaries, too, let’s say players do keep a percent of what they earn (after, y’know, some approximation of taxes and living expenses). That would make sense, and it would keep salaries and labor costs from being exclusively bad things. It’s easy enough to envision this getting spent on typical MMO fluff perks, a la what Maple Story sells in their cash shop. You could also see, though, people buying their own tools, ones that would stay with them if they left one company for another… or left to start their own…

You know, I don’t know what having it as your actual job is like, but being a game designer is fun. :p
T. Carl said on October 19th, 2007 at 8:36 am:
Its still fun.
RandomExcess said on October 21st, 2007 at 8:17 am:
Great implementation – surprisingly fun!

I only just found out about Metaplace, read about this and followed the links, and I have to say that you have (no pun intended) nailed it.

Sure taking it on its own, there are plenty of things that could be done to expand or ‘improve’ it, but as a part of the larger construction MMO concept, this is perfect as is – it gives that WarioWare-style burst of speed-vs-accuracy excitement, and also allows for quick, clear progress, so you’d get a good feeling of progression even in a short play session. One thing minigames like this MUST have is quick progression, whether you succeed or fail – if someone gets stuck on one stage because they keep making mistakes, they’ll just quit, whereas if you screw up and it jumps to the next stage anyway, there’s no time to get brought down on your failure, because you’re already trying again! (which is also why I found Puzzle Pirates got tiresome fast – often the games were far too drawn out for how fun they were.)

In the same vein, I think the harder difficulty misses that mark – by making it more complex and more demanding, yes its harder, but it also means that if you screw up, you’re stuck there for a while. Maybe on a harder setting it just makes more stringent demands on speed and accuracy?

I’m split on the stud-finder idea – the full reveal is ‘unrealistic’, but it keeps the play really fast, which I think is more important. When I read the initial design, I was envisioning a fairly small circular reveal around the pointer (fading out from centre), but I think that would slow the game down too much, so maybe it should be a fairly large circle (say around 1/2 of the screen height in diameter) so you can get a decent amount of info in one hit, keeping the game nice and fast. (yes, you can argue that speed comes from not using it as much, but those of us without good memories would still like to be able to enjoy the game – we’d still never be as good as the players that don’t need it, but at least we could still participate)

Maybe you could have an ‘Apprentice’ mode, where the drywall sheet is slightly transparent, so the player can always see where the studs are and thus focus on learning to use the nailgun first!

Great work – my hat is off to you!

(btw, there’s a (single-player) construction game coming out called ‘Building World’ that might be worth keeping an eye on, for those of you interested: http://www.creative-patterns.com/spip.php?rubrique27?=en&Game=1)

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