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> <channel><title>Comments on: Paul Heydon on casual games</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Perspective</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-126315</link> <dc:creator>Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Perspective</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:14:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-126315</guid> <description>[...] For added perspective, WoW has 9 Million users, or twice the PS3&#8217;s user base. One game is within reach of the XBox and the Wii. And some people are still saying it&#8217;s small time. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] For added perspective, WoW has 9 Million users, or twice the PS3&#8217;s user base. One game is within reach of the XBox and the Wii. And some people are still saying it&#8217;s small time. [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jeff Freeman</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125925</link> <dc:creator>Jeff Freeman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:17:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125925</guid> <description>Abalieno, they make tons of money (Google and MySpace do, dunno about YouTube alone).
But, this is why consolidation figures big into this: to make &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; money you have to be huge.
Google makes lots on advertising, which first appears on &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; search engine people use, and then appears on the sites people go to after finding them on Google. Then in their gmail, and again on their news reader, and some more with any of Google&#039;s other bundle of goodies. It&#039;s just not worth it to advertise most anywhere else.
It may even be that the price they paid to be MySpace&#039;s search engine or the amount they paid for YouTube were more than either was worth, just for what they are. But what they&#039;re really paying for is to maintain their place (as THE place to advertise online).
Anyway, this sort of thing strikes me as inevitable. It&#039;s probably going to be Yahoo, Google, Amazon or the like (well, AND the like) to deliver it - rather than &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; game company, big or small.
Those could even push the game industry itself back offline. I mean, if publishing your online game is pointless because everyone in WhateverWeb is playing WhateverGame &lt;em&gt;there&lt;/em&gt; - interest in an MMO of today doesn&#039;t live beyond &quot;Which social network is this for?&quot;.
Also because they&#039;re paying attention and we&#039;re mostly not; Or whatever little outliers of the game industry &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; paying attention don&#039;t have their ability to, say, buy every freaking thing.
Know how many game developers Google could buy for what it paid to be MySpace&#039;s search engine?
Anyway, yeh.
I think there&#039;ll be more than one permutation of this, consoles will figure into it heavily soon as they decide that they want to, and at least one version&#039;s going to be more like Yahoo&#039;s instant messenger already is (if a sense of place-n-space tied everything together rather than an IM client), and the sorts of MMO&#039;s you like won&#039;t exactly vanish overnight.
But I do think we&#039;re in for a pants-down spanking.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abalieno, they make tons of money (Google and MySpace do, dunno about YouTube alone).</p><p>But, this is why consolidation figures big into this: to make <em>any</em> money you have to be huge.</p><p>Google makes lots on advertising, which first appears on <em>the</em> search engine people use, and then appears on the sites people go to after finding them on Google. Then in their gmail, and again on their news reader, and some more with any of Google&#8217;s other bundle of goodies. It&#8217;s just not worth it to advertise most anywhere else.</p><p>It may even be that the price they paid to be MySpace&#8217;s search engine or the amount they paid for YouTube were more than either was worth, just for what they are. But what they&#8217;re really paying for is to maintain their place (as THE place to advertise online).</p><p>Anyway, this sort of thing strikes me as inevitable. It&#8217;s probably going to be Yahoo, Google, Amazon or the like (well, AND the like) to deliver it &#8211; rather than <em>any</em> game company, big or small.</p><p>Those could even push the game industry itself back offline. I mean, if publishing your online game is pointless because everyone in WhateverWeb is playing WhateverGame <em>there</em> &#8211; interest in an MMO of today doesn&#8217;t live beyond &#8220;Which social network is this for?&#8221;.</p><p>Also because they&#8217;re paying attention and we&#8217;re mostly not; Or whatever little outliers of the game industry <em>are</em> paying attention don&#8217;t have their ability to, say, buy every freaking thing.</p><p>Know how many game developers Google could buy for what it paid to be MySpace&#8217;s search engine?</p><p>Anyway, yeh.</p><p>I think there&#8217;ll be more than one permutation of this, consoles will figure into it heavily soon as they decide that they want to, and at least one version&#8217;s going to be more like Yahoo&#8217;s instant messenger already is (if a sense of place-n-space tied everything together rather than an IM client), and the sorts of MMO&#8217;s you like won&#8217;t exactly vanish overnight.</p><p>But I do think we&#8217;re in for a pants-down spanking.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Amaranthar</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125915</link> <dc:creator>Amaranthar</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:22:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125915</guid> <description>Name recognition is huge in advertising, and banner ads really don&#039;t reflect that. I can see their point of view in this.
A developer has to decide if they are making a game or an advetising space with game features to attract people. But I can see both in one game, and being quite acceptable to the players if it&#039;s done right. It would have to be a modern or futuristic game, likely sci-fi and maybe with fantasy elements. Then ads could be splashed all over and if the game itself is good enough and complete enough it could really be effective.
I mean, imagine a game world that&#039;s made &quot;worldly&quot; and with lots of world interaction in a near future scenario, with space stuff due to alien interaction and fantasy stuff due to magical time/dimension warps, with NPCs dressed a bit futuristic to give the needed divide from modern day realism.
This game could sell contracts to restaurant/food corporations, i.e. Pepsi or Coke, to add their products in normal ways as well as futuristic/magical means. So, you are in a fight and need some healing, and stop at that vending machine on the corner to stock up on &lt;i&gt;&quot;Coka Cola Healthnut Soda&quot;&lt;/i&gt;, or &lt;i&gt;&quot;Pepsi Strong&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. Getting there fast using your &lt;i&gt;&quot;Adidas Speed Feet&quot;&lt;/i&gt;, or course.
But I still think that pure fantasy is where it&#039;s at for MMORPGs, and advertising just doesn&#039;t fit there. (And I hope you developers don&#039;t fall into the &quot;I&#039;m tired of orcs&quot; trap being passed around. People still want Elves, Orcs, Dragons and magic.)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Name recognition is huge in advertising, and banner ads really don&#8217;t reflect that. I can see their point of view in this.</p><p>A developer has to decide if they are making a game or an advetising space with game features to attract people. But I can see both in one game, and being quite acceptable to the players if it&#8217;s done right. It would have to be a modern or futuristic game, likely sci-fi and maybe with fantasy elements. Then ads could be splashed all over and if the game itself is good enough and complete enough it could really be effective.</p><p>I mean, imagine a game world that&#8217;s made &#8220;worldly&#8221; and with lots of world interaction in a near future scenario, with space stuff due to alien interaction and fantasy stuff due to magical time/dimension warps, with NPCs dressed a bit futuristic to give the needed divide from modern day realism.</p><p>This game could sell contracts to restaurant/food corporations, i.e. Pepsi or Coke, to add their products in normal ways as well as futuristic/magical means. So, you are in a fight and need some healing, and stop at that vending machine on the corner to stock up on <i>&#8220;Coka Cola Healthnut Soda&#8221;</i>, or <i>&#8220;Pepsi Strong&#8221;</i>. Getting there fast using your <i>&#8220;Adidas Speed Feet&#8221;</i>, or course.</p><p>But I still think that pure fantasy is where it&#8217;s at for MMORPGs, and advertising just doesn&#8217;t fit there. (And I hope you developers don&#8217;t fall into the &#8220;I&#8217;m tired of orcs&#8221; trap being passed around. People still want Elves, Orcs, Dragons and magic.)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jorgen</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125914</link> <dc:creator>Jorgen</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:07:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125914</guid> <description>Google is very rich. Their main source of income is advertising.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google is very rich. Their main source of income is advertising.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Abalieno</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125901</link> <dc:creator>Abalieno</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:39:21 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125901</guid> <description>How do MySpace and YouTube make money? Through advertising? Do they actually make money?
We are back at the new economy bubble. Where everyone was convinced that clicking on an ad banner brought in your pockets millions dollars at no effort.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do MySpace and YouTube make money? Through advertising? Do they actually make money?</p><p>We are back at the new economy bubble. Where everyone was convinced that clicking on an ad banner brought in your pockets millions dollars at no effort.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nabeel Hyatt</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125897</link> <dc:creator>Nabeel Hyatt</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:23:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125897</guid> <description>It just seemed to be an amalgam of every catchword and meme currently in vogue, versus any real analysis.
Really, do I need an analyst to tell me that if someone effectively mixes MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel it will be big?
Although what Paul Hayden says does jive with my (and your) general worldview Raph, I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s even worth posting since the particulars were so lacking in real consideration and depth as to question their value.
Oh.. and World of Warcraft is not small by anyone&#039;s measurement. It may not be the biggest compared to some of the properties on the Internet, TV, or Radio, but it would never be considered small in any of those.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just seemed to be an amalgam of every catchword and meme currently in vogue, versus any real analysis.</p><p>Really, do I need an analyst to tell me that if someone effectively mixes MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel it will be big?</p><p>Although what Paul Hayden says does jive with my (and your) general worldview Raph, I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s even worth posting since the particulars were so lacking in real consideration and depth as to question their value.</p><p>Oh.. and World of Warcraft is not small by anyone&#8217;s measurement. It may not be the biggest compared to some of the properties on the Internet, TV, or Radio, but it would never be considered small in any of those.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tholal</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125894</link> <dc:creator>Tholal</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:59:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125894</guid> <description>Not really surprising regarding the &#039;too small&#039; comment when coming from someone looking to just make money. Kind of like how TV shows get canceled because they bring in &#039;only 7 million viewers&#039;. Big business doesn&#039;t like having niche markets.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really surprising regarding the &#8216;too small&#8217; comment when coming from someone looking to just make money. Kind of like how TV shows get canceled because they bring in &#8216;only 7 million viewers&#8217;. Big business doesn&#8217;t like having niche markets.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jorgen</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125882</link> <dc:creator>Jorgen</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:03:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125882</guid> <description>Raph, how far off are Areae to making something like...
&quot;MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel&quot; with Web 2.0-ish features?
;-)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raph, how far off are Areae to making something like&#8230;</p><p>&#8220;MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel&#8221; with Web 2.0-ish features?</p><p> <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Patrick</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125854</link> <dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:35:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125854</guid> <description>Incidentally, what I&#039;m working on is MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel = 100 million users - so thats good.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, what I&#8217;m working on is MySpace + YouTube + Maple Story + Skype + Habbo Hotel = 100 million users &#8211; so thats good.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mobil Avenue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Casual Games Holy Grail</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/comment-page-1/#comment-125848</link> <dc:creator>Mobil Avenue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Casual Games Holy Grail</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:57:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/25/paul-heydon-on-casual-games/#comment-125848</guid> <description>[...] Paul Heydon is MD of Avista Partners, a London based Investment Bank founded earlier this year, solely focused on the media sector. His presentation at last weeks Casual Games Association in Seattle has sparked a number of conversations. With Casual Games coming of age Paul&#8217;s strategic review of the sector is recommended reading as are commentary from Ben Kuchera and Raph Koster. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Paul Heydon is MD of Avista Partners, a London based Investment Bank founded earlier this year, solely focused on the media sector. His presentation at last weeks Casual Games Association in Seattle has sparked a number of conversations. With Casual Games coming of age Paul&#8217;s strategic review of the sector is recommended reading as are commentary from Ben Kuchera and Raph Koster. [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
