 |
Tired of hearing about the NGEJune 12th, 2007 |
So, here it is, a few years later, and we’re still seeing articles on the NGE. And honestly, I’m getting a little tired of it. In this case, I actually declined to comment for the article, but there’s nonetheless a giant inset quote from me dug up from ages ago (which irritates me, honestly). I had declined because I just didn’t want to perpetuate the discussion.
Why? Well, for one, it does feel a bit like the whole thing has turned into a bit of a punching bag. For example, the article claims that SOE has not apologized. But John Smedley has gone on record with saying it was an error several times now. All sorts of motives get ascribed to all sorts of people that just don’t fit with what I know of them.
Julio Torres is not the devil — in fact, he was a hardcore Entertainer in SWG, not an RP-hater. Jeff Freeman is a smart talented designer — he did the SWG pet system, so it’s not like he was out to remove it — and NGE wasn’t his initiative anyway. Smed is a guy who cares deeply about customers, whom I have personally seen spend hours on the phone talking to just one in order to try to resolve their issues. And yet all these guys regularly get vilified in forums regardless of what their actual roles were or what they feel about the subject, in large part because their names happen to be public. In the end, it all just feels a bit unfair, in large part because only fragments of the story are even available. And the story is going to stay unavailable because of confidentiality agreements.
I know this is likely going to prove unpopular with a lot of folks who read this blog. And I am not out to defend the NGE. Rather, I’m saying that until the subject can be discussed a bit more dispassionately, it’s difficult to discuss at all. And I am as guilty as anyone of speaking provocatively about it. But I feel burned out on the whole discussion, because so little of it seems productive.
Knowing the author of the article, I’m sure that it wasn’t his intent to merely fan flames. And I know that anything I said in the past is always out there on the Net, ready to come back to haunt me. I also know that anyone whose name is publicly associated with something, like mine, or Smed’s, or Jeff’s or Julio’s, is going to be fair game. But my personal take on the issue is more nuanced than what I see in the discussions and articles, which have uncomfortable tones of pitchforks and fires. I’m thrilled that something I worked on aroused such passion in people. I’ve also had to move on.
So yeah, I’m kinda tired of reading articles about the NGE, particularly ones that paint these adversarial relationships with people I still talk to regularly and whom I know to be good people. I doubt that anyone will simply stop talking about it, but as for me, I’m staying out of it, because regardless of how I feel about the NGE itself, I think that the real lessons of it are mostly stuff that isn’t even visible to the public. (For example, IMHO the real lesson is about data mining, and not about any of the stuff that gets talked about).
The flaming of me may now commence. 
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site. [?]Type in a relevant tag, and click the button, and help organize this blog's information.
[More Help]
original IP will ensure that major publishers don’t crash and burn - see Majesco’s near-death for a great example of why this is the case. Secondly, Allen Varney is the most consistently readable and smart of all The Escapists’ contributors, despite some controversy - and is at least straightforward, for pity’s sake - and his interview with Magic The Gathering creator Richard Garfield is a model of well-researched rigor. Bravo, that man - more of this, please!
[...] take on the article is over here: http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12/tired-of-hearing-about-the-nge/ Posting your comment… Have your [...]
[...] After reading some comments by Raph over on his site, I went back and read to the end of Varney’s piece more carefully. He [...]
[...] Raph responded on his blog: clicky[/ur] I completely agree with him, and suggest to Raph a triple-sliced flame retardant suit…. [...]
[...] reaction has been swift. Raph Koster asks us to stop moaning about his friends. So yeah, I’m kinda tired of reading articles about the NGE, particularly ones that paint these [...]
[...] der Chef-Entwickler von SWG lange bevor der NGE verffentlicht wurde. Er beklagt sich nun in seinem Blog darber, dass viele Developer die mehr oder weniger daran beteiligt waren, bis heute behelligt [...]
[...] Raph Koster just wants it all to stop: Julio Torres is not the devil — in fact, he was a hardcore Entertainer in SWG, not an RP-hater. [...]
[...] and foolish. Varney was little separated from that.Syntheticist will leave the last comment to Raph Koster, the original designer of SW:G, who also responded to the piece.I feel burned out on the whole [...]
[...] up resulting in a downgrade of subscribers. Of course, this has all been said before, and some are sick of hearing it. I’ve only brought it up because I’ve concluded that the maxim “You only get one [...]
[...] I think it’s time for us to move on. I tend to agree with Raph on this one. I think players who are still hung up on this need to do one two things, 1) get [...]
[...] have to love this. Apparently the Escapist has an NGE story on its web site.This story apparently caught the eye of Raph Koster, who is wondering why people still care. And basically defending Smed and Company. And making it [...]
[...] Apparently Raph is tired of hearing about the NGE. [...]
[...] like The Escapist has stirred a hornets nest over at Lum’s house and positively has knocked over some potted plants at Raph’s place. Allen Varney’s article, Blowing Up Galaxies, has caused Raph to whine that he is tired of hearing [...]
Post. The most audacious attempt for a box product to escape its launch velocity and graduate to a new order of magnitude, by most reports, ended up resulting in a downgrade of subscribers. Of course, this has all been said before, and some are sick of hearing it. I’ve only brought it up because I’ve concluded that the maxim “You only get one launch” isn’t always true, though, and it’s clear that there are some situations where games have ’slow burned
[...] http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12/tired…e-nge/#commentsSo, here it is, a few years later, and were still seeing articles on the NGE. And honestly, Im getting a little tired of it. In this case, I actually declined to comment for the article, but theres nonetheless a giant inset quote from me dug up from ages ago (which irritates me, honestly). I had declined because I just didnt want to perpetuate the discussion.Why? Well, for one, it does feel a bit like the whole thing has turned into a bit of a punching bag. For example, the article claims that SOE has not apologized. But John Smedley has gone on record with saying it was an error several times now. All sorts of motives get ascribed to all sorts of people that just dont fit with what I know of them.Julio Torres is not the devil in fact, he was a hardcore Entertainer in SWG, not an RP-hater. Jeff Freeman is a smart talented designer he did the SWG pet system, so its not like he was out to remove it and NGE wasnt his initiative anyway. Smed is a guy who cares deeply about customers, whom I have personally seen spend hours on the phone talking to just one in order to try to resolve their issues. And yet all these guys regularly get vilified in forums regardless of what their actual roles were or what they feel about the subject, in large part because their names happen to be public. In the end, it all just feels a bit unfair, in large part because only fragments of the story are even available. And the story is going to stay unavailable because of confidentiality agreements.I know this is likely going to prove unpopular with a lot of folks who read this blog. And I am not out to defend the NGE. Rather, Im saying that until the subject can be discussed a bit more dispassionately, its difficult to discuss at all. And I am as guilty as anyone of speaking provocatively about it. But I feel burned out on the whole discussion, because so little of it seems productive.Knowing the author of the article, Im sure that it wasnt his intent to merely fan flames. And I know that anything I said in the past is always out there on the Net, ready to come back to haunt me. I also know that anyone whose name is publicly associated with something, like mine, or Smeds, or Jeffs or Julios, is going to be fair game. But my personal take on the issue is more nuanced than what I see in the discussions and articles, which have uncomfortable tones of pitchforks and fires. Im thrilled that something I worked on aroused such passion in people. Ive also had to move on.So yeah, Im kinda tired of reading articles about the NGE, particularly ones that paint these adversarial relationships with people I still talk to regularly and whom I know to be good people. I doubt that anyone will simply stop talking about it, but as for me, Im staying out of it, because regardless of how I feel about the NGE itself, I think that the real lessons of it are mostly stuff that isnt even visible to the public. (For example, IMHO the real lesson is about data mining, and not about any of the stuff that gets talked about).The flaming of me may now commence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) * [...]
[...] Raph is tired of hearing about the NGE http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12…about-the-nge/ [...]
[...] enough trouble healing on their own. But all the recent hubbub, observations, clarifications, and reluctant rehashings make it hard to resist throwing my coppers into the [...]
[...] recently posted a rant about the NGE http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/1…-about-the-nge/ Kinda interesting. It doesn’t really tell you anything that hasn’t already been made public, but [...]
[...] provoked Raph to share his thoughts on the topic and the author.The following post can be found at Raph Koster.com.So, here it is, a few years later, and were still seeing articles on the NGE. And honestly, Im [...]
[...] Raph to share his thoughts on the topic and the author. The following post can be found at Raph Koster.com. So, here it is, a few years later, and we’re still seeing articles on the NGE. And honestly, [...]
[...] snake_03 wrote:Kenobi26 wrote:I might be off base here….but who likes 9 "iconic starwarsy" profs only? Who loves the only melee class as Jedi? (Don't even insult yourself by trying to say that the bastardized melee smear in the other profs is true melee) I've read dozens of posts over the past months since you streamlined the game to "Star Wars for dummies" concerning the limited choices in professions. It used to be NGE vs Pre-cu…but now that is all over with NGE is obviously here to stay - but what I'm hearing isn't the mechanics of the game itself, or combat systems or any of that - it's the stupid profession wheels with cookie-cutter portraits, and limited choices people are tired of. I think people want more profession choices, want more options for cross-specialization (more than just profession x + Beast master combos), and want something that looks more like expertise trees expanded to a 4×4 box screen like we used to have. Don't change the stats, the combat, or any other dynamic except the profession trees and number of choices as well as hybrid options, and see what happens. Why is it you're allowing beast master as a pseudo-hybrid prof, but BH-Medic isn't viable, or Commando-spy? Or hell, just give people otpions to pick from marksman, brawler and scout pools to meet pre-requisites to become their chosen prof? (remember master marks+ 2 scout trees was BH? Very cool way to do things. Don't tell us ya lost the code to redesign some prof trees and erase those silly iconic portraits) Think about it….anyone prefer the 9 iconic profs with no diversity tell me. KenobiWell, back when we had more professions pre-nge it was kind of fun, I miss being a ranger. However, considering that we have alot of folks asking for fixes and nerfs on what we have now, I can't see Soe adding more professsions. That would just open the door for more nerf cries and bugs. This is just another I hate the NGE post and as Raph Koster stated last week in his blog. Tired of hearing about the NGE [...]
[...] the blog of Raph Koster, former Creative Director of Star Wars Galaxies: Knowing the author of the article, I’m sure that [...]
[...] Did anyone else look at the other developer’s responses? I started out over at Moorgard (which is down at this time with a bad config of some sort) here: http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134 I finished up over at Raph’s place: http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12/tired-of-hearing-about-the-nge/ [...]
[...] up Galaxieshttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/101/14 Raph responded in his blog over his quote.http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12/tired-of-hearing-about-the-nge Then he responded over the blog itself [...]
[...] read the article and Raph Koster's reaction a bit ago. I mostly agree with him: Smedley HAS apologized, and he's even quoted in the [...]
[...] Koster is Tired of hearing about the NGE Thats No Moon on Broken [...]
[...] Varney is the most consistently readable and smart of all The Escapists’ contributors, despite some controversy - and is at least straightforward, for pity’s sake - and his interview with Magic The Gathering [...]
[...] is the most consistently readable and smart of all The Escapists’ contributors, despite some controversy - and is at least straightforward, for pity’s sake - and his interview with Magic The [...]
[...] on SWG) who is sick of hearing about it and mentions that Smedley has apologized repeatedly Raph’s site *June 1, 2007 - SWG Vault Reconciliation Mentions a recent interview but doesn’t cite it *June 15, [...]
[...] ultimo arreglo final y que firmo la sentencia de muerte de SW:G fue, aunque Raph este cansado de oirlo, el New Game Enhancements que eran un remake completo del juego. Simplificándolo en exceso, [...]
de combate a nivel mínimo te movías por los planetas iniciales con tranquilidad, tras el CU un mob cutre de Tatooine te podia matar en un despiste. El ultimo arreglo final y que firmo la sentencia de muerte de SW:G fue, aunqueRaph este cansado de oirlo, el New Game Enhancements que eran un remake completo del juego. Simplificándolo en exceso, eliminando las habilidades de comercio y añadiendo algo de arcade a la mezcla. A los fans no les gusto nada y las cancelaciones