Comments on: Web in world or world in web? http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/ Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: StumbleUpon » Your page is now on StumbleUpon!http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-125939 StumbleUpon » Your page is now on StumbleUpon! Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:48:49 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-125939 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] Your page is on StumbleUpon [...]

]]> By: Second Life | Clear Night Skyhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-125938 Second Life | Clear Night Sky Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:03:42 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-125938 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] 3D Web | Second Life | Technology I just finished reading an insightful post by Raph Koster titled Web in world or world in web. He brings up a good point about the 3D Web. We're all concentrating on the idea that someday [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] 3D Web | Second Life | Technology I just finished reading an insightful post by Raph Koster titled Web in world or world in web. He brings up a good point about the 3D Web. We're all concentrating on the idea that someday [...]

]]> By: Michael Chuihttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122819 Michael Chui Fri, 25 May 2007 06:54:31 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122819 /pizza And for those who don't know the reference, <a href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2005/02/that_pizza_stor.html" rel="nofollow">see here</a>. Yay for immersion. Or not. /pizza

And for those who don’t know the reference, see here.

Yay for immersion. Or not.

]]> By: RAY YU .: Ray of Light » Blog Archive » Today’s Blogrollhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122799 RAY YU .: Ray of Light » Blog Archive » Today’s Blogroll Thu, 24 May 2007 20:56:23 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122799 [...] Raph’s Website: Web in world or world in web  [...]

[...] Raph’s Website: Web in world or world in web  [...]

]]> By: Duncan Goughhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122782 Duncan Gough Thu, 24 May 2007 14:27:52 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122782 And then there's Joost. They have an encouraging amount of content but the app wants to take over your entire desktop at a time when watching tv on the web is increasing, and the idea that people watch tv to the exclusion of all the other distractions is waning. I wouldn't be surprised to see companies like Joost take note of web-games like Whirled, and start to allow that themselves to become part of the users continuous partial attention stream. And then there’s Joost. They have an encouraging amount of content but the app wants to take over your entire desktop at a time when watching tv on the web is increasing, and the idea that people watch tv to the exclusion of all the other distractions is waning.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see companies like Joost take note of web-games like Whirled, and start to allow that themselves to become part of the users continuous partial attention stream.

]]> By: Deep MMORPG discussions *begin rant* « Dark Londonhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122777 Deep MMORPG discussions *begin rant* « Dark London Thu, 24 May 2007 10:11:01 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122777 [...] back to my main point. In this post Raph gets on to the subject of ‘immersion’ - yes, one of those academic terms that [...]

[...] back to my main point. In this post Raph gets on to the subject of ‘immersion’ – yes, one of those academic terms that [...]

]]> By: Brodehttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122756 Brode Wed, 23 May 2007 21:42:09 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122756 Looks like the human-machine interface devices are enroute via the US DOD... "Darpa says it expects to have prototypes in the hands of soldiers in three years." http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2007/05/binoculars And the "intel inside" brain chips aren't far behind... http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20797780-12332,00.html Granted, this tech is still in the shadowy realm of darpa, but so was the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet" rel="nofollow">internet</a> once. Looks like the human-machine interface devices are enroute via the US DOD…
“Darpa says it expects to have prototypes in the hands of soldiers in three years.”
http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2007/05/binoculars

And the “intel inside” brain chips aren’t far behind…
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20797780-12332,00.html

Granted, this tech is still in the shadowy realm of darpa,
but so was the internet once.

]]> By: Mike Chttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122723 Mike C Wed, 23 May 2007 10:52:23 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122723 web in VW or VW in web...does it really matter? obviously the answer will change as time and technology evolve to meet the needs of the users. I have for some time now been convinced that the real issue with 3D immersion (beyond the obvious HW/BW/interop issues) is I/O devices. when you think about the basic premise of 3D it really involves our brain's ability to process things better in 3D (just like color vs BW) so eventually most everything we do to interact with information will benefit from moving to 3D spaces. Continuing what others said here - the real change here would be devices that will enable true 3D output and input (e.g. haptic gloves and VR glasses and eventually brain implants). Although some of these devices are approching critical performance barriers, they are still far from fully developed. All the "3D" that we use now is a mere projection and canot fully exploite the power of "real3D". As per the old adage of "I dont need 3D for reading text or scheduling appointements..." - are you sure? are you REALLY REALY sure? Do you even know how a 10th generation 3D_MS_Outlook would be? could 3D (+the I/O i mentioned) be used to view and manage conflicts and or resources? and as for reading - that is probabaly the only true 2D information there is. It is such since, of all our visual skills it is the only one that is formally learned (unless you go into Chomskyian generative grammer...) so isnt really part of our hardwirin/firmware. So IMHO in a real 3D environment text could still effectively be projected on 2D surfaces (a la Minority Report). That being said - did anyone try to develop a 3D based written laguage... MC web in VW or VW in web…does it really matter?
obviously the answer will change as time and technology evolve to meet the needs of the users.
I have for some time now been convinced that the real issue with 3D immersion (beyond the obvious HW/BW/interop issues) is I/O devices. when you think about the basic premise of 3D it really involves our brain’s ability to process things better in 3D (just like color vs BW) so eventually most everything we do to interact with information will benefit from moving to 3D spaces. Continuing what others said here – the real change here would be devices that will enable true 3D output and input (e.g. haptic gloves and VR glasses and eventually brain implants). Although some of these devices are approching critical performance barriers, they are still far from fully developed. All the “3D” that we use now is a mere projection and canot fully exploite the power of “real3D”.
As per the old adage of “I dont need 3D for reading text or scheduling appointements…” – are you sure? are you REALLY REALY sure? Do you even know how a 10th generation 3D_MS_Outlook would be? could 3D (+the I/O i mentioned) be used to view and manage conflicts and or resources? and as for reading – that is probabaly the only true 2D information there is. It is such since, of all our visual skills it is the only one that is formally learned (unless you go into Chomskyian generative grammer…) so isnt really part of our hardwirin/firmware. So IMHO in a real 3D environment text could still effectively be projected on 2D surfaces (a la Minority Report). That being said – did anyone try to develop a 3D based written laguage…
MC

]]> By: Avatar OShttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122661 Avatar OS Tue, 22 May 2007 15:40:43 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122661 [...] (via Raph) is where I think the operating system interface should go. Mac OS X, Windows Vista, and the Beryl [...]

[...] (via Raph) is where I think the operating system interface should go. Mac OS X, Windows Vista, and the Beryl [...]

]]> By: Andrew Johnsonhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/comment-page-1/#comment-122648 Andrew Johnson Tue, 22 May 2007 07:38:12 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/21/web-in-world-or-world-in-web/#comment-122648 This is a simple, the issue is being made way too complex. I remember back in the days of VRML and all of these predictions about 3D desktops and so on. Why isn't this great 3D internet here? Its all about usability. I don't need 3D to read and write e-mail. I don't need to walk down a hall and open a door to launch my web browser! 3D is great in games. Games are about entertainment. The 3D is the smoke and mirrors that tricks our minds into believing we are in a fantastic world when we are just really clicking over, and over, and over, again getting no where. Stop for just a moment and consider flash. 2D or 3D flash itself has serious problems. I build web sites and internet businesses for a living. I don't touch flash. Why not? Its great glitz and glamor for high paid web designers but it does little to improve a visitors usability or quest for information. Wild new user interfaces might be great for bmwusa.com, but would it contribute a single thing to google or yahoo? 3D replicates the real world. If you don't need to add an extra layer of time and effort into the digital world, why do it? 3D world fantasies aside, 3D will remain critical for entertainment, gaming, and simulation. Companies will increasingly promote their products in 3D, a "digital showroom." However, the ideas some virtual reality futurists have predicted for decades are more than a bit short sighted and completely lacking any practicality. This is a simple, the issue is being made way too complex.

I remember back in the days of VRML and all of these predictions about 3D desktops and so on. Why isn’t this great 3D internet here? Its all about usability. I don’t need 3D to read and write e-mail. I don’t need to walk down a hall and open a door to launch my web browser!

3D is great in games. Games are about entertainment. The 3D is the smoke and mirrors that tricks our minds into believing we are in a fantastic world when we are just really clicking over, and over, and over, again getting no where.

Stop for just a moment and consider flash. 2D or 3D flash itself has serious problems. I build web sites and internet businesses for a living. I don’t touch flash. Why not? Its great glitz and glamor for high paid web designers but it does little to improve a visitors usability or quest for information. Wild new user interfaces might be great for bmwusa.com, but would it contribute a single thing to google or yahoo?

3D replicates the real world. If you don’t need to add an extra layer of time and effort into the digital world, why do it?

3D world fantasies aside, 3D will remain critical for entertainment, gaming, and simulation. Companies will increasingly promote their products in 3D, a “digital showroom.” However, the ideas some virtual reality futurists have predicted for decades are more than a bit short sighted and completely lacking any practicality.

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