Comments on: ETech07: coverage of my talk http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/ Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: SAPO Tags de celsohttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-128605 SAPO Tags de celso Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:03:25 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-128605

[...] Raph’s Website » ETech07: coverage of my talk guardar – +info Tags coverage etech2007 Total de 2 tags, guardado por 1 utilizador, criado em 29 de Março [...]

]]> By: Prokofy Nevahttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-121107 Prokofy Neva Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:58:57 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-121107 yes, lol VW was truly evil. What they'll do is scrape all our data, then sell it to the highest bidder. All the privacy you thought you had on "my land" and "in my house" and "with my relationships" in "my virtual world" are all scraped, fed into giant data bases like search.sheeplabs.com and then mined, mined, and mined some more to sell stuff to us. To make us "interact with the brand" bleh. We're all for sale, without even really fully grasping what it means. My point is that the conversation is forking here. One bunch is going off discussing virtual worlds which are open-ended, and have a sliding scale from corporate-controlled to user-controlled, but still have an open-ended experience. Everything Castronova writes about governance by NPCs and AIs and the absence of the CSR is all wet then -- it doesn't apply. Then there's you guys, Terra Nova and you going off in the direction of analysing everything from the perspective of how closed-circuit closed games will dictate the routines and behaviours. And maybe it really forked for a reason, because there isn't going to be a Metaverse that includes WoW and Second Life in one continuum, but the Metaverse and then the other thing... Evil and morals play out more in your games and are more visible there than they are on open-ended grids, Raph. This is good a time as any to ask: is your new world, Areae, going to abide by the precepts you laid down in the Avatars' Bill of Rights? if not, why not? yes, lol VW was truly evil. What they’ll do is scrape all our data, then sell it to the highest bidder. All the privacy you thought you had on “my land” and “in my house” and “with my relationships” in “my virtual world” are all scraped, fed into giant data bases like search.sheeplabs.com and then mined, mined, and mined some more to sell stuff to us. To make us “interact with the brand” bleh.

We’re all for sale, without even really fully grasping what it means.

My point is that the conversation is forking here. One bunch is going off discussing virtual worlds which are open-ended, and have a sliding scale from corporate-controlled to user-controlled, but still have an open-ended experience. Everything Castronova writes about governance by NPCs and AIs and the absence of the CSR is all wet then — it doesn’t apply.

Then there’s you guys, Terra Nova and you going off in the direction of analysing everything from the perspective of how closed-circuit closed games will dictate the routines and behaviours. And maybe it really forked for a reason, because there isn’t going to be a Metaverse that includes WoW and Second Life in one continuum, but the Metaverse and then the other thing…

Evil and morals play out more in your games and are more visible there than they are on open-ended grids, Raph.

This is good a time as any to ask: is your new world, Areae, going to abide by the precepts you laid down in the Avatars’ Bill of Rights?

if not, why not?

]]> By: Morgan Ramsayhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120529 Morgan Ramsay Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:56:26 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120529 <blockquote>Evil isn’t redeemable, but you are. Morals aren’t innate, they need to be taught. These are real things, games can only partly solve them.</blockquote> I mirror Raph's goggleness. I would also add that evil and morality are not "real things" but rather mental constructs to which humans sometimes give credence. The distinction between "good" and "evil" is imaginary. Morality isn't "taught" either. Ethics are taught and thus require subscription. Morals are prescribed, commanded by people or other mental constructs. <blockquote>If you make Linked in a game of getting to the CEO, I won’t play, as I only need it to find someone in my city interested in my fields merely to talk to.</blockquote> "Getting to the CEO" is an objective, not a goal. Games can present players with several goals, many objectives, and many more choices. I wouldn't play a game that offered only one objective either. That would be a boring game.

Evil isn’t redeemable, but you are. Morals aren’t innate, they need to be taught. These are real things, games can only partly solve them.

I mirror Raph’s goggleness. I would also add that evil and morality are not “real things” but rather mental constructs to which humans sometimes give credence. The distinction between “good” and “evil” is imaginary. Morality isn’t “taught” either. Ethics are taught and thus require subscription. Morals are prescribed, commanded by people or other mental constructs.

If you make Linked in a game of getting to the CEO, I won’t play, as I only need it to find someone in my city interested in my fields merely to talk to.

“Getting to the CEO” is an objective, not a goal. Games can present players with several goals, many objectives, and many more choices. I wouldn’t play a game that offered only one objective either. That would be a boring game.

]]> By: Raphhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120527 Raph Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:09:58 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120527 Uh, allow me to goggle back. What do evil and morals have to do with the topic of the talk? The topic of the talk was interaction design. Nor did I suggest making LinkedIn a game of getting to the CEO, but rather that there's an opportunity there for the service to your interactions with it more interesting. Besides, wasn't VW2007 full of evil? 5m of marketing deals? ;) Uh, allow me to goggle back. What do evil and morals have to do with the topic of the talk? The topic of the talk was interaction design. Nor did I suggest making LinkedIn a game of getting to the CEO, but rather that there’s an opportunity there for the service to your interactions with it more interesting.

Besides, wasn’t VW2007 full of evil? 5m of marketing deals? ;)

]]> By: Prokofy Nevahttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120526 Prokofy Neva Sun, 01 Apr 2007 20:53:44 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120526 *Goggles at this stuff after coming off a week of Virtual Worlds 2007 and Metaverse meet-up stuff*. Raph, it's not all a game. Evil isn't redeemable, but you are. Morals aren't innate, they need to be taught. These are real things, games can only partly solve them. If you make Linked in a game of getting to the CEO, I won't play, as I only need it to find someone in my city interested in my fields merely to talk to. *Goggles at this stuff after coming off a week of Virtual Worlds 2007 and Metaverse meet-up stuff*.

Raph, it’s not all a game. Evil isn’t redeemable, but you are. Morals aren’t innate, they need to be taught. These are real things, games can only partly solve them.

If you make Linked in a game of getting to the CEO, I won’t play, as I only need it to find someone in my city interested in my fields merely to talk to.

]]> By: andyhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120223 andy Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:11:00 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120223 Your talk @etech 2007 was awesome. Can't wait to apply more game stuff. -andy ("not one of you" ;D Your talk @etech 2007 was awesome.
Can’t wait to apply more game stuff.

-andy (“not one of you” ;D

]]> By: Trevor F. Smith: Exterior: No Areae Announcementhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120184 Trevor F. Smith: Exterior: No Areae Announcement Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:21:43 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120184 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] didn't pull back the veil during his ETech talk, which is too [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] didn’t pull back the veil during his ETech talk, which is too [...]

]]> By: Morgan Ramsayhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-120117 Morgan Ramsay Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:26:49 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/03/28/etech07-coverage-of-my-talk/#comment-120117 Sadly, very sadly, I've only been to one of your stand-up shows, and that was at a bookstore. I truly, truly hope that the <em>Emerging Technology</em> conference used technology, emerging or not, to record audio and video of your session. I will be bitterly disappointed if such is not the case, especially given Tim O'Reilly's salary. Surely he can afford camera equipment! Sadly, very sadly, I’ve only been to one of your stand-up shows, and that was at a bookstore. I truly, truly hope that the Emerging Technology conference used technology, emerging or not, to record audio and video of your session. I will be bitterly disappointed if such is not the case, especially given Tim O’Reilly’s salary. Surely he can afford camera equipment!

]]>