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> <channel><title>Comments on: Talkin&#8217; Tyra</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-111745</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:36:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-111745</guid> <description>For me, the distinction is trivial. The core of a virtual world is the space, the avatars... whether there&#039;s games in there or not is essentially an issue of features. When I played There.com, which is arguably the same sort of social world you describe, I played the economics game and made a lot of Therebucks as a clothing designer; I played hoverboarding races and trivia games. So games pop up even in social worlds.
I don&#039;t think it trivializes things at all. But there is little doubt that from a design perspective, a &quot;talker&quot; is far far simpler than a full-blown game world.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, the distinction is trivial. The core of a virtual world is the space, the avatars&#8230; whether there&#8217;s games in there or not is essentially an issue of features. When I played There.com, which is arguably the same sort of social world you describe, I played the economics game and made a lot of Therebucks as a clothing designer; I played hoverboarding races and trivia games. So games pop up even in social worlds.</p><p>I don&#8217;t think it trivializes things at all. But there is little doubt that from a design perspective, a &#8220;talker&#8221; is far far simpler than a full-blown game world.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: IQpierce</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-111739</link> <dc:creator>IQpierce</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:22:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-111739</guid> <description>Raph, don&#039;t you feel like your chosen art form is being cheapened a little when it starts being used as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imvu.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IMVU&lt;/a&gt; with &quot;a few more features&quot;? In fact, when it&#039;s used in this way, do you even feel that it deserves recognition as being related to the MMO world?
Of course I know it does, especially now since these things are unusual. But at some point are we going to have to draw a line of saying &quot;this is an MMO&quot; and &quot;this is a chat program that happens to feature an avatar, a mock-physical world, and a few token things to do&quot;? Or will that line disappear? And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raph, don&#8217;t you feel like your chosen art form is being cheapened a little when it starts being used as <a
href="http://www.imvu.com/" rel="nofollow">IMVU</a> with &#8220;a few more features&#8221;? In fact, when it&#8217;s used in this way, do you even feel that it deserves recognition as being related to the MMO world?</p><p>Of course I know it does, especially now since these things are unusual. But at some point are we going to have to draw a line of saying &#8220;this is an MMO&#8221; and &#8220;this is a chat program that happens to feature an avatar, a mock-physical world, and a few token things to do&#8221;? Or will that line disappear? And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: idmchick</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-110741</link> <dc:creator>idmchick</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:37:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-110741</guid> <description>FYI, Tyra&#039;s Virtual Studio and The Lounge look the same because it is one and the same program.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, Tyra&#8217;s Virtual Studio and The Lounge look the same because it is one and the same program.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: The Illusion Factory</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-110564</link> <dc:creator>The Illusion Factory</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 08:40:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-110564</guid> <description>I completely agree that the entertainment companies are about to hit a wall with the current state of 3D web opportunities. While The Illusion Factory was one of the first big developers in Second Life, we intentionally did not start selling our clients an installation until we had really tested the waters ourselves. Sadly, SL has begun to stand for Steady Limitations....especially for entertainment properties. However, we are huge fans of Second Life, and There and all of the other emerging platforms and the brave people who ventured to make Tyra a virtual experience.
All creativity has to start somewhere. As with any technology that emerges, there are those who will experiment and others who follow and better those first experiments and so on. No doubt when the Zoetrope was unveiled, someone was there to criticize it too.  And you can count on the fact that it was not someone who had put their neck on the line to manifest a new artform into being. That takes courage, spirit and vision and while we had nothing to do with the Tyra experiment, we applaud that it was created in the first place. Even if the armchair quarterbacks turn a nose up at it, they will still benefit from the successors who have studied what these pioneers have done and work to make the next one even more cool.
At The Illusion Factory, we see Multiverse as the solution to the platform issue. It will soon be ubiquitous and it will be versatile enough to carry the really intense interaction that the entertainment companies will soon find lacking in Second Life. Second Life has many, many exciting features, that is why we built the first virtual theme park in the metaverse in Second Life.... and called it Illusion Factory. Others are already copying it and working to create their versions of improving what we pioneered. It is cyclical....and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
We do not look at the world as it currently is. Instead we are projecting our business models four and seven years out when the world has converged and television and the internet are the same thing. At that point, the relevance of these user experiences in the 3D web environment will be ten times more apparent.
In the meantime, we are one of the forerunning companies to lead the entertainment industry into the metaverse. I have read all of your ideas and will present them to clients... because i think the user generated content is a key component to the new success of the web. Our clients are coming around faster than all of you might think.
&lt;strong&gt;MY SUGGESTION.... SEND ME YOUR WISH LIST FOR HOW THE ENTERTAINMENT COMPANIES SHOULD MARKET THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES IN THE METAVERSE. TELL US HOW YOU WANT TO INTERACT WITH IT, IN YOUR BEST CASE SCENARIO. I WILL DO MY VERY BEST TO MAKE THIS COME TO FRUITION FOR YOU.
EMAIL ME HERE:
brian@illusionfactory.com
I really look forward to your suggestions. Do not send any proprietary material or ideas as we cannot protect it or accept it. Only send me ideas you wish to share with our entertainment clients and I will make sure they hear it.... and hopefully include it with the next wave of coming platforms and installations.
Brian Weiner
CEO
The Illusion Factory</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree that the entertainment companies are about to hit a wall with the current state of 3D web opportunities. While The Illusion Factory was one of the first big developers in Second Life, we intentionally did not start selling our clients an installation until we had really tested the waters ourselves. Sadly, SL has begun to stand for Steady Limitations&#8230;.especially for entertainment properties. However, we are huge fans of Second Life, and There and all of the other emerging platforms and the brave people who ventured to make Tyra a virtual experience.</p><p>All creativity has to start somewhere. As with any technology that emerges, there are those who will experiment and others who follow and better those first experiments and so on. No doubt when the Zoetrope was unveiled, someone was there to criticize it too.  And you can count on the fact that it was not someone who had put their neck on the line to manifest a new artform into being. That takes courage, spirit and vision and while we had nothing to do with the Tyra experiment, we applaud that it was created in the first place. Even if the armchair quarterbacks turn a nose up at it, they will still benefit from the successors who have studied what these pioneers have done and work to make the next one even more cool.</p><p>At The Illusion Factory, we see Multiverse as the solution to the platform issue. It will soon be ubiquitous and it will be versatile enough to carry the really intense interaction that the entertainment companies will soon find lacking in Second Life. Second Life has many, many exciting features, that is why we built the first virtual theme park in the metaverse in Second Life&#8230;. and called it Illusion Factory. Others are already copying it and working to create their versions of improving what we pioneered. It is cyclical&#8230;.and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.</p><p>We do not look at the world as it currently is. Instead we are projecting our business models four and seven years out when the world has converged and television and the internet are the same thing. At that point, the relevance of these user experiences in the 3D web environment will be ten times more apparent.</p><p>In the meantime, we are one of the forerunning companies to lead the entertainment industry into the metaverse. I have read all of your ideas and will present them to clients&#8230; because i think the user generated content is a key component to the new success of the web. Our clients are coming around faster than all of you might think.</p><p><strong>MY SUGGESTION&#8230;. SEND ME YOUR WISH LIST FOR HOW THE ENTERTAINMENT COMPANIES SHOULD MARKET THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES IN THE METAVERSE. TELL US HOW YOU WANT TO INTERACT WITH IT, IN YOUR BEST CASE SCENARIO. I WILL DO MY VERY BEST TO MAKE THIS COME TO FRUITION FOR YOU.</p><p>EMAIL ME HERE:</p><p><a
href="mailto:brian@illusionfactory.com">brian@illusionfactory.com</a></p><p>I really look forward to your suggestions. Do not send any proprietary material or ideas as we cannot protect it or accept it. Only send me ideas you wish to share with our entertainment clients and I will make sure they hear it&#8230;. and hopefully include it with the next wave of coming platforms and installations.</p><p>Brian Weiner<br
/> CEO<br
/> The Illusion Factory</strong></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Evangolis</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109985</link> <dc:creator>Evangolis</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:17:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109985</guid> <description>WOW is a game.  This is a 3D chat.  The distinction is significant to us as gamers, and, probably, to whoever greenlighted this.  I don&#039;t think you can really call this hypocrisy.  Dull, now, that might fit.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW is a game.  This is a 3D chat.  The distinction is significant to us as gamers, and, probably, to whoever greenlighted this.  I don&#8217;t think you can really call this hypocrisy.  Dull, now, that might fit.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Grimwell</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109835</link> <dc:creator>Grimwell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:41:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109835</guid> <description>It&#039;s much more likely that her marketing/branding/pr team thought this up and either didn&#039;t ask for permission, asked when Tyra wasn&#039;t listening, or got approval from the people paying for the show. Or pitched it in a non-MMO framework.
&quot;People can chat and make little internet versions of themselves? Let&#039;s do that!&quot;
Getting something approved in certain circles is often more about who you ask, what you say, and how you say it. I could never work like that, but I&#039;d imagine that Tyra is surrounded by a bunch of sycophants who would. :)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s much more likely that her marketing/branding/pr team thought this up and either didn&#8217;t ask for permission, asked when Tyra wasn&#8217;t listening, or got approval from the people paying for the show. Or pitched it in a non-MMO framework.</p><p>&#8220;People can chat and make little internet versions of themselves? Let&#8217;s do that!&#8221;</p><p>Getting something approved in certain circles is often more about who you ask, what you say, and how you say it. I could never work like that, but I&#8217;d imagine that Tyra is surrounded by a bunch of sycophants who would. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: EndgameRadio &#187; Raph’s Website » Talkin’ Tyra</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109773</link> <dc:creator>EndgameRadio &#187; Raph’s Website » Talkin’ Tyra</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:45:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109773</guid> <description>[...] Raph’s Website » Talkin’ Tyra [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Raph’s Website » Talkin’ Tyra [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kressilac</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109734</link> <dc:creator>Kressilac</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:26:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109734</guid> <description>I think it is ironic that Tyra Banks has a woman on her show that&#039;s so depressed over her husband playing WoW and then turns around and creates a 3D chat space.  What was she thinking while interviewing this woman and her husband...  Something tells me it is along the lines of, &quot;WoW is that addicting.. I never would have thought it could capture an audience that way.... Hey why not make one for my show...  Eat your heart out Oprah...&quot;
Just a bit too hypocritical if you ask me.  Besides, the thing is going to fail and then the execs will wonder why it failed.  Do you think they will figure out that without a USP their in over their heads?
YouTube for Tyra Banks and World of Warcraft and you can find the two piece episode.  Sounds like she&#039;s talking out both sides of her mouth.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is ironic that Tyra Banks has a woman on her show that&#8217;s so depressed over her husband playing WoW and then turns around and creates a 3D chat space.  What was she thinking while interviewing this woman and her husband&#8230;  Something tells me it is along the lines of, &#8220;WoW is that addicting.. I never would have thought it could capture an audience that way&#8230;. Hey why not make one for my show&#8230;  Eat your heart out Oprah&#8230;&#8221;</p><p>Just a bit too hypocritical if you ask me.  Besides, the thing is going to fail and then the execs will wonder why it failed.  Do you think they will figure out that without a USP their in over their heads?</p><p>YouTube for Tyra Banks and World of Warcraft and you can find the two piece episode.  Sounds like she&#8217;s talking out both sides of her mouth.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Grimwell</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109733</link> <dc:creator>Grimwell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:20:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109733</guid> <description>&quot;They are coming!&quot; the words shot out urgently through the whisper. &quot;The &lt;em&gt;media companies&lt;/em&gt;, they are coming!&quot; Knees clutched high to the chin his eyes darted about like a cat high on nip looking anxiously for mice from any corner.
He was surrounded by the litter of a few dozen game boxes, plastic beverage containers, and an open tub of three day old cottage cheese. The Grimwell definitely looked like he belonged on an episode of the &lt;em&gt;X-Files&lt;/em&gt; as the &#039;Freak of the Week.&#039;
&quot;They think they know our secrets, but they don&#039;t. They don&#039;t!&quot; he giggled and bit at his thumbnail. &quot;Learn damn it! Learn!&quot; spittle, expelled by paranoia, shot around the thumb and at the monitor before him. &quot;Remember &lt;em&gt;E-Commerce&lt;/em&gt;? Remember &#039;&lt;em&gt;Virtual Reality&lt;/em&gt;?&#039; These things were your ideas, your inventions. You don&#039;t learn, you don&#039;t understand, you don&#039;t even TRY!&quot;
---
I think we are about to get caught up in a swell of stupid. Somebody hold me?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They are coming!&#8221; the words shot out urgently through the whisper. &#8220;The <em>media companies</em>, they are coming!&#8221; Knees clutched high to the chin his eyes darted about like a cat high on nip looking anxiously for mice from any corner.</p><p>He was surrounded by the litter of a few dozen game boxes, plastic beverage containers, and an open tub of three day old cottage cheese. The Grimwell definitely looked like he belonged on an episode of the <em>X-Files</em> as the &#8216;Freak of the Week.&#8217;</p><p>&#8220;They think they know our secrets, but they don&#8217;t. They don&#8217;t!&#8221; he giggled and bit at his thumbnail. &#8220;Learn damn it! Learn!&#8221; spittle, expelled by paranoia, shot around the thumb and at the monitor before him. &#8220;Remember <em>E-Commerce</em>? Remember &#8216;<em>Virtual Reality</em>?&#8217; These things were your ideas, your inventions. You don&#8217;t learn, you don&#8217;t understand, you don&#8217;t even TRY!&#8221;</p><p>&#8212;<br
/> I think we are about to get caught up in a swell of stupid. Somebody hold me?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: joshlee</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/comment-page-1/#comment-109731</link> <dc:creator>joshlee</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:03:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/13/talkin-tyra/#comment-109731</guid> <description>These quickie licensed VWs seem to me to be the equivalent of &quot;official&quot; web sites for TV shows and films: they&#039;re attention-grabbing, strongly branded, and provide a bit of extra content, but they&#039;re not really prepared -- or even intended -- to provide the long-term stickiness that grassroots communities (fansites, message boards, etc.) do.
However, official and fan sites aren&#039;t necessarily in opposition to each other; they create a feedback loop of content that serves to strengthen the brand, which is good for the brand owner (more eyeballs, more revenues) and for the audience (more friends, more fun). So while I agree that fan VWs are going to be a lot more numerous, diverse, and interesting than official ones, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s actually going to lead to the &quot;death of out moded corporate giants.&quot;  (Unless, of course, the brands suck too much to inspire any fan-generated content.)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These quickie licensed VWs seem to me to be the equivalent of &#8220;official&#8221; web sites for TV shows and films: they&#8217;re attention-grabbing, strongly branded, and provide a bit of extra content, but they&#8217;re not really prepared &#8212; or even intended &#8212; to provide the long-term stickiness that grassroots communities (fansites, message boards, etc.) do.</p><p>However, official and fan sites aren&#8217;t necessarily in opposition to each other; they create a feedback loop of content that serves to strengthen the brand, which is good for the brand owner (more eyeballs, more revenues) and for the audience (more friends, more fun). So while I agree that fan VWs are going to be a lot more numerous, diverse, and interesting than official ones, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s actually going to lead to the &#8220;death of out moded corporate giants.&#8221;  (Unless, of course, the brands suck too much to inspire any fan-generated content.)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
