Comments on: The power-levelling industry http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/ Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Some play, some pay « mja.bloghttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-133959 Some play, some pay « mja.blog Sat, 09 Feb 2008 11:13:11 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-133959 [...] entry on The power-levelling industry by game design Raph [...]

[...] entry on The power-levelling industry by game design Raph [...]

]]> By: Luminosita - A Learning Log: NET12 Some play, some payhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-125947 Luminosita - A Learning Log: NET12 Some play, some pay Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:58:10 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-125947 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Helen in my NET12 class)Outsourcing your 'Warcraft' skills, Feb 2007 article on CNetBlog entry on The power-levelling industry by game design Raph KosterWikipedia entry on experience points and power levellingGamer Revolution [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] Helen in my NET12 class)Outsourcing your ‘Warcraft’ skills, Feb 2007 article on CNetBlog entry on The power-levelling industry by game design Raph KosterWikipedia entry on experience points and power levellingGamer Revolution [...]

]]> By: El árbol y la etiqueta. La solución al power-levelling. « Ludosofíahttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-115357 El árbol y la etiqueta. La solución al power-levelling. « Ludosofía Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:15:07 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-115357 [...] Raph Koster, a quien muchos denominan el padre de los MMO tal como hoy los conocemos, escribió su respuesta al reciente artículo de la CNET acerca de la industria de Power Levelling (que podéis encontrar [...]

[...] Raph Koster, a quien muchos denominan el padre de los MMO tal como hoy los conocemos, escribió su respuesta al reciente artículo de la CNET acerca de la industria de Power Levelling (que podéis encontrar [...]

]]> By: Psychochild’s Blog » Drawing the wrong conclusionshttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-112953 Psychochild’s Blog » Drawing the wrong conclusions Thu, 01 Mar 2007 06:19:04 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-112953 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] EQ2 platinum I can also buy WoW gold and/or get a character power-leveled. (Raph recently posted a blog entry about an article on power-levelers, with a breakdown of how much it costs to get powered a level in WoW.) Does WoW suck as well [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] EQ2 platinum I can also buy WoW gold and/or get a character power-leveled. (Raph recently posted a blog entry about an article on power-levelers, with a breakdown of how much it costs to get powered a level in WoW.) Does WoW suck as well [...]

]]> By: Raphhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-112008 Raph Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:21:06 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-112008 I think by "time invested" we <i>mean</i> devotion. And vice versa. Why devote so much time, if not? The analogy you cite is interesting because most people don't have the natural ability to become a pro football player, either. It's a natural divide as well as a time investment one. I think saying "tough shit" to the people who want to see their friend more often is a bit disingenuous, though. It's all a bit more complicated than that. I think by “time invested” we mean devotion. And vice versa. Why devote so much time, if not?

The analogy you cite is interesting because most people don’t have the natural ability to become a pro football player, either. It’s a natural divide as well as a time investment one.

I think saying “tough shit” to the people who want to see their friend more often is a bit disingenuous, though. It’s all a bit more complicated than that.

]]> By: Taliderianhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-112007 Taliderian Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:54:41 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-112007 I disagree. It has little to do with "devotion." Time and devotion are two different things. These games reward <strong>time invested</strong>, just like pretty much every other activity on the planet. That's just the way the world works. The problem is the people who have less time to invest per day/week feel the need to whine about it. People are fond of using anologies, here's one for em. Your best friend is a professional football player. You want to play football with him on sunday, but he has an NFL game with his team that day. You can't play with him. He put in the time and effort to become a pro player. You didn't. I disagree. It has little to do with “devotion.” Time and devotion are two different things. These games reward time invested, just like pretty much every other activity on the planet. That’s just the way the world works. The problem is the people who have less time to invest per day/week feel the need to whine about it.

People are fond of using anologies, here’s one for em.

Your best friend is a professional football player. You want to play football with him on sunday, but he has an NFL game with his team that day. You can’t play with him. He put in the time and effort to become a pro player. You didn’t.

]]> By: Taliderianhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-112006 Taliderian Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:42:44 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-112006 "Still, 15 trillion gold in Ultima Online is worth approximately US$450 million." Where are you getting these numbers? 15 trillion gold in UO is only worth 27 million US. http://www.power-gamers.net/uo.html Also, I would argue that it's "actual" worth is much much less. Or rather, was. How much of a market do you think there is for UO gold? WoW gold's "actual" worth is much higher by comparison. “Still, 15 trillion gold in Ultima Online is worth approximately US$450 million.”

Where are you getting these numbers? 15 trillion gold in UO is only worth 27 million US. http://www.power-gamers.net/uo.html

Also, I would argue that it’s “actual” worth is much much less. Or rather, was. How much of a market do you think there is for UO gold?

WoW gold’s “actual” worth is much higher by comparison.

]]> By: Morgan Ramsayhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-111778 Morgan Ramsay Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:01:18 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-111778 <blockquote>If you read it again, he’s referring to the real world value of the gold removed, not the number of gold pieces.</blockquote> Still, 15 trillion gold in <em>Ultima Online</em> is worth approximately US$450 million.

If you read it again, he’s referring to the real world value of the gold removed, not the number of gold pieces.

Still, 15 trillion gold in Ultima Online is worth approximately US$450 million.

]]> By: Raphhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-111746 Raph Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:38:11 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-111746 <blockquote>Some people are arguing that people have the right to pay for levels/items in order to have a level playing field. That is blatantly false. How is it a level playing field when even a hardcore powergamer can’t play 24/7 like a leveling service can?</blockquote> Exactly. Point being, the level playing field was an illusion in the first place. It's not level by nature -- it's about time, not skill. As Jonathan Baron said, <em>these games reward devotion.</em> Which is a large part of why I am saying we can find plenty of other badges, and that it's sort of silly to argue over who is more devoted.

Some people are arguing that people have the right to pay for levels/items in order to have a level playing field. That is blatantly false. How is it a level playing field when even a hardcore powergamer can’t play 24/7 like a leveling service can?

Exactly. Point being, the level playing field was an illusion in the first place. It’s not level by nature — it’s about time, not skill. As Jonathan Baron said, these games reward devotion.

Which is a large part of why I am saying we can find plenty of other badges, and that it’s sort of silly to argue over who is more devoted.

]]> By: Taliderianhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/comment-page-2/#comment-111727 Taliderian Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:38:45 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/08/the-power-levelling-industry/#comment-111727 Some people are arguing that people have the right to pay for levels/items in order to have a level playing field. That is blatantly false. How is it a level playing field when even a hardcore powergamer can't play 24/7 like a leveling service can? What if a person's sense of achievement in an mmo is gained by "getting there first"? Also, take a look at games that have extremely rare items, such as the world drop epics in WoW. How fair is it that after all my saving and scrimping to get an item on the AH, some other guy buy 1k gold from a website and snatches it away? Morgan said: "Chump change compared to the 15 trillion gold pieces removed from Ultima Online in July 2006. And probably chump changed compared to the zillions of units of in-game money sold, and being sold, for real money across the gamespace" If you read it again, he's referring to the real world value of the gold removed, not the number of gold pieces. Some people are arguing that people have the right to pay for levels/items in order to have a level playing field. That is blatantly false. How is it a level playing field when even a hardcore powergamer can’t play 24/7 like a leveling service can? What if a person’s sense of achievement in an mmo is gained by “getting there first”? Also, take a look at games that have extremely rare items, such as the world drop epics in WoW. How fair is it that after all my saving and scrimping to get an item on the AH, some other guy buy 1k gold from a website and snatches it away?

Morgan said:

“Chump change compared to the 15 trillion gold pieces removed from Ultima Online in July 2006. And probably chump changed compared to the zillions of units of in-game money sold, and being sold, for real money across the gamespace”

If you read it again, he’s referring to the real world value of the gold removed, not the number of gold pieces.

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