<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: &#8216;Flation</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Law &#38; Games Seminar &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Inflation in MMORPGs (and Elsewhere?)</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-128664</link> <dc:creator>Law &#38; Games Seminar &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Inflation in MMORPGs (and Elsewhere?)</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:24:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-128664</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Koster has some interesting thoughts about inflation in MMORPGs, With the launch of Burning Crusade, people are already commenting on how much the value of older [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Koster has some interesting thoughts about inflation in MMORPGs, With the launch of Burning Crusade, people are already commenting on how much the value of older [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dungeon Escape Design &#171; Xalthorn&#8217;s Weblog</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-127912</link> <dc:creator>Dungeon Escape Design &#171; Xalthorn&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:42:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-127912</guid> <description>[...] designing Dungeon Escape, a friend pointed me in the direction of an article by Raph Koster on mudflation.  The article talks about the age old problem of persistent games.  To briefly summarise, a [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] designing Dungeon Escape, a friend pointed me in the direction of an article by Raph Koster on mudflation.  The article talks about the age old problem of persistent games.  To briefly summarise, a [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Gregarius &#187; Boing Boing &#187; enero 2007</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-127106</link> <dc:creator>Gregarius &#187; Boing Boing &#187; enero 2007</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:07:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-127106</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] drains to account for all the influx. This often means punishingly high costs for players, btw.  Link (via [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] drains to account for all the influx. This often means punishingly high costs for players, btw.  Link (via [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raid Thrash &#171; /random</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-124126</link> <dc:creator>Raid Thrash &#171; /random</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:20:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-124126</guid> <description>[...] the game at a rapid rate without ruining it. Raph Koster has a nice summary of mudflation on his website, both the symptoms of it and traditional ways of trying to address [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] the game at a rapid rate without ruining it. Raph Koster has a nice summary of mudflation on his website, both the symptoms of it and traditional ways of trying to address [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Test Blog for Freakonomics &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Summoning Warlock Greenspan</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-121379</link> <dc:creator>Test Blog for Freakonomics &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Summoning Warlock Greenspan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:02:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-121379</guid> <description>[...] is not just a problem in the real world.  Apparently MMOGs like World of Witchcraft  experience a type of inflation as [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] is not just a problem in the real world.  Apparently MMOGs like World of Witchcraft  experience a type of inflation as [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mudflation - La-kopi</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-119116</link> <dc:creator>Mudflation - La-kopi</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:00:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-119116</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...]     http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/  an interesting read for those interested in the economies of mmos... y release of new patches will [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] <a
href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/" rel="nofollow">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/</a> an interesting read for those interested in the economies of mmos&#8230; y release of new patches will [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: WoW Forums -&#62; Gold, Why is it so hard to get?</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-114636</link> <dc:creator>WoW Forums -&#62; Gold, Why is it so hard to get?</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:59:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-114636</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] of Musdflation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation MMO designer Raph Koster (UO/SWG) http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/ /moo  WoW Resource: http://www.wowhead.com WoW Policies: [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] of Musdflation: <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation</a> MMO designer Raph Koster (UO/SWG) <a
href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/" rel="nofollow">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/</a> /moo  WoW Resource: <a
href="http://www.wowhead.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wowhead.com</a> WoW Policies: [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: blog.hanfordlemoore &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To Oblivion and beyond!</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-103781</link> <dc:creator>blog.hanfordlemoore &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To Oblivion and beyond!</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:54:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-103781</guid> <description>[...] possible the game designers did this in an attempt to fight the single-player equivalent of Mudflation. A system like this can make sure the player is paced correctly and doesn&#8217;t outgrow smaller [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] possible the game designers did this in an attempt to fight the single-player equivalent of Mudflation. A system like this can make sure the player is paced correctly and doesn&#8217;t outgrow smaller [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: We Know/We No Forums - Post-BC economy observations</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-103298</link> <dc:creator>We Know/We No Forums - Post-BC economy observations</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:26:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-103298</guid> <description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] CommentTime7 days ago   &#160;permalink  In the theory department, Raph Koster has an excellent article about dealing with mudflation. He&#039;s got a long history with MMOG design, interesting to see the various approaches and how WoW fits in. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] CommentTime7 days ago   &nbsp;permalink  In the theory department, Raph Koster has an excellent article about dealing with mudflation. He&#8217;s got a long history with MMOG design, interesting to see the various approaches and how WoW fits in. [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: mujadaddy</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/comment-page-2/#comment-102526</link> <dc:creator>mujadaddy</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:16:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/01/17/flation/#comment-102526</guid> <description>&lt;em&gt;by Psychochild:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The problem is that this isn’t terribly fun. In the real world we have poverty, credit card debt, and suicides over unpaid bills. Not exactly a compelling description for gameplay, I fear. The secret is, as Sam Lewis said in his Austin talk, that inflation is okay but you really want to avoid hyperinflation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Most games don&#039;t extend credit, though.  Cash-and-carry.
In a game, you want the players to emulate a shark --- constantly moving forward to avoid sinking.  That&#039;s what a monthly fee is all about right?  Play or &quot;die.&quot;  The developers have to determine *how slowly* that &quot;swim rate&quot; should be in their economy.  I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s not a lot of mental work, but I *am* saying you shouldn&#039;t fear emulating the real-world economy more closely.
Inflation *IS* ok...as long as there&#039;s a &quot;good&quot; reason for it.  &quot;The game world is played 24 hours a day and therefore moves through economic swings at incredible, mindboggling rates,&quot; to me, is not a good reason.
&lt;em&gt;by Raph:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;In SWG, we actually chose to say “we don’t care what the value of a credit is” precisely because of the infinite spawns. Since basically every good had its prices set by players, the effect of devaluation of currency was fairly minimal in terms of buying power for goods because the prices floated along with the currency. In a typical mudflation scenario, values are “hardcoded” and therefore the buying power of players rises dramatically.
The same was sort of true with items; in SWG and UO both there was big turnover on items, and everything was doomed to break, pretty much. The result was that there were greater markets for items that were not top of the line. In SWG’s case, we also made it so that the influx of resources of varying quality resulted in the best item or goods not always being available. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
The devs SHOULDN&#039;T set the value of a credit.  The game world should do that (Check), but then you say that &quot;basically every good had its prices set by players.&quot; ...which is true, also.  What I&#039;m getting at is that apart from the minimal power requirements for harvesting the resources in the first place, there were NO CASH OUTLAYS that were &quot;required&quot; by the game.  Resource &quot;barons&quot; needed a little cash which was generally compensated a hundred- or even a thousand-fold... and the end-consumers who needed the most expensive arms &amp; armor would only be limited in their &quot;cash creation&quot; by their time and ingenuity in the game.  This is of what I&#039;m speaking.  I don&#039;t think the raw rate of cash influx was conceived of by you guys.  (I was a *very* modest credit grinder, errrr, Hunter, and I could make 150k an hour with zero risk to me except the possibility of 1-2k of equipment degradation) ... 150k was enough to buy... almost anything that wasn&#039;t Top tier in that game.  One hour of work for the largest house in the game... from the most expensive Architects...
Anyway, not to turn this into a memory lane post... I just think mudflation is a mitigatable-by-accuracy problem... :) I *do* enjoy reading everyone&#039;s thoughts though...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>by Psychochild:</em><br
/><blockquote>The problem is that this isn’t terribly fun. In the real world we have poverty, credit card debt, and suicides over unpaid bills. Not exactly a compelling description for gameplay, I fear. The secret is, as Sam Lewis said in his Austin talk, that inflation is okay but you really want to avoid hyperinflation.</p></blockquote><p>Most games don&#8217;t extend credit, though.  Cash-and-carry.</p><p>In a game, you want the players to emulate a shark &#8212; constantly moving forward to avoid sinking.  That&#8217;s what a monthly fee is all about right?  Play or &#8220;die.&#8221;  The developers have to determine *how slowly* that &#8220;swim rate&#8221; should be in their economy.  I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s not a lot of mental work, but I *am* saying you shouldn&#8217;t fear emulating the real-world economy more closely.</p><p>Inflation *IS* ok&#8230;as long as there&#8217;s a &#8220;good&#8221; reason for it.  &#8220;The game world is played 24 hours a day and therefore moves through economic swings at incredible, mindboggling rates,&#8221; to me, is not a good reason.</p><p><em>by Raph:</em><br
/><blockquote>In SWG, we actually chose to say “we don’t care what the value of a credit is” precisely because of the infinite spawns. Since basically every good had its prices set by players, the effect of devaluation of currency was fairly minimal in terms of buying power for goods because the prices floated along with the currency. In a typical mudflation scenario, values are “hardcoded” and therefore the buying power of players rises dramatically.</p><p>The same was sort of true with items; in SWG and UO both there was big turnover on items, and everything was doomed to break, pretty much. The result was that there were greater markets for items that were not top of the line. In SWG’s case, we also made it so that the influx of resources of varying quality resulted in the best item or goods not always being available.</p></blockquote><p>The devs SHOULDN&#8217;T set the value of a credit.  The game world should do that (Check), but then you say that &#8220;basically every good had its prices set by players.&#8221; &#8230;which is true, also.  What I&#8217;m getting at is that apart from the minimal power requirements for harvesting the resources in the first place, there were NO CASH OUTLAYS that were &#8220;required&#8221; by the game.  Resource &#8220;barons&#8221; needed a little cash which was generally compensated a hundred- or even a thousand-fold&#8230; and the end-consumers who needed the most expensive arms &amp; armor would only be limited in their &#8220;cash creation&#8221; by their time and ingenuity in the game.  This is of what I&#8217;m speaking.  I don&#8217;t think the raw rate of cash influx was conceived of by you guys.  (I was a *very* modest credit grinder, errrr, Hunter, and I could make 150k an hour with zero risk to me except the possibility of 1-2k of equipment degradation) &#8230; 150k was enough to buy&#8230; almost anything that wasn&#8217;t Top tier in that game.  One hour of work for the largest house in the game&#8230; from the most expensive Architects&#8230;</p><p>Anyway, not to turn this into a memory lane post&#8230; I just think mudflation is a mitigatable-by-accuracy problem&#8230; <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I *do* enjoy reading everyone&#8217;s thoughts though&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
