Comments on: Avatar-Based Marketing http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/ Raph Koster's personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Second Thoughts: Harvitar and Groupitarhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-10675 Second Thoughts: Harvitar and Groupitar Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:32:50 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-10675 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] OK. So he got all the media/blog hits he wanted, SL and RL, and got the ultimate pay-off from Raph Koster, who called his article "exhaustively researched". [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] OK. So he got all the media/blog hits he wanted, SL and RL, and got the ultimate pay-off from Raph Koster, who called his article "exhaustively researched". [...]

]]> By: Raphhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8954 Raph Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:30:06 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8954 I have to point out that if we're talking about user-to-user transactions, any world will seem to have a huge amount, and most of the big games will show up as much larger than SL. That's what Ted Castronova used to initially estimate the EQ economy... user-to-user transactions are not qualitatively different just because of the original source of the currency. I have to point out that if we’re talking about user-to-user transactions, any world will seem to have a huge amount, and most of the big games will show up as much larger than SL. That’s what Ted Castronova used to initially estimate the EQ economy… user-to-user transactions are not qualitatively different just because of the original source of the currency.

]]> By: Prokofy Nevahttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8940 Prokofy Neva Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:02:53 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8940 his means 250,000 SL residents are paying at least an average of $20 per month for their in-world activity. This is $20/avg. that residents pay each other, and doesn’t even factor in revenue paid to Linden Lab through land use fees, etc… Hamlet, what we need to pin down about this figure is whether it reflects BOTH payments to "Currency Linden" to post on the LindEX for sale to USD, and cash received in Lindens from purchasing Lindens in USD-denominated amounts from credit cards, or whether it *only* includes inworld transactions. It's also important to figure out whether they include all those "sources," like the $500 a week in stipends, and the "sinks," like the $10 per texture upload, the $100 for group formation etc which is burned and doesn't stay in the economy. I've never gotten a clear answer about that despite asking many times. To be a fair portrait of what the world's economy generates, it seems to me it has to leave include LindEx sales, stipend deliveries, and sinks in fees -- or else eliminate all of those. his means 250,000 SL residents are paying at least an average of $20 per month for their in-world activity. This is $20/avg. that residents pay each other, and doesn’t even factor in revenue paid to Linden Lab through land use fees, etc…

Hamlet, what we need to pin down about this figure is whether it reflects BOTH payments to “Currency Linden” to post on the LindEX for sale to USD, and cash received in Lindens from purchasing Lindens in USD-denominated amounts from credit cards, or whether it *only* includes inworld transactions. It’s also important to figure out whether they include all those “sources,” like the $500 a week in stipends, and the “sinks,” like the $10 per texture upload, the $100 for group formation etc which is burned and doesn’t stay in the economy. I’ve never gotten a clear answer about that despite asking many times.

To be a fair portrait of what the world’s economy generates, it seems to me it has to leave include LindEx sales, stipend deliveries, and sinks in fees — or else eliminate all of those.

]]> By: Elle Pollackhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8512 Elle Pollack Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:37:24 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8512 A median figure for the amount people earn in SL would probably be more usefull than an average. For comparison, I'm way at the bottom of the statistic pool: I have a basic account and I sell a few avatars in a group store. Between that and the occasional comission work, I make between L$3000 and L$5000 a month. So, pocket change really. I want to say that Philip has a chart of this; I could swear that his presentation at GDC this year had a graph of this very statistic. But it's not in the copy of his slides that are on the GDC website. A median figure for the amount people earn in SL would probably be more usefull than an average. For comparison, I’m way at the bottom of the statistic pool: I have a basic account and I sell a few avatars in a group store. Between that and the occasional comission work, I make between L$3000 and L$5000 a month. So, pocket change really.

I want to say that Philip has a chart of this; I could swear that his presentation at GDC this year had a graph of this very statistic. But it’s not in the copy of his slides that are on the GDC website.

]]> By: SirBrucehttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8482 SirBruce Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:06:52 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8482 Thanks for the heads up. Obviously many of those 250,000 are never coming back, so it's not really a fair comparison. And average revenue per user tells you something completely different. Obviously a game where 10,000 people pay $1,000 each to play is nowhere near as influential to the market as a game where 1,000,000 people pay $10 each to play, even though the dollar amounts are the same. Thanks for the heads up. Obviously many of those 250,000 are never coming back, so it’s not really a fair comparison. And average revenue per user tells you something completely different. Obviously a game where 10,000 people pay $1,000 each to play is nowhere near as influential to the market as a game where 1,000,000 people pay $10 each to play, even though the dollar amounts are the same.

]]> By: Hamlet Auhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8472 Hamlet Au Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:23:51 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8472 Just update my take on this conversation. Bruce, specifically to the figures you're looking for in your MMO figures, here's a particularly key point you may want to factor in: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2006/06/quarter_million.html [H]ere's another number to toss into this mix: $5 million. That's the estimated value of monthly user-to-user transactions last January, as reported by BusinessWeek in May. It's surely much larger now, but taking $5 million as a base rate, this means 250,000 SL residents are paying at least an average of $20 per month for their in-world activity. This is $20/avg. that residents pay each other, and doesn't even factor in revenue paid to Linden Lab through land use fees, etc... Just update my take on this conversation. Bruce, specifically to the figures you’re looking for in your MMO figures, here’s a particularly key point you may want to factor in:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2006/06/quarter_million.html

[H]ere’s another number to toss into this mix: $5 million. That’s the estimated value of monthly user-to-user transactions last January, as reported by BusinessWeek in May. It’s surely much larger now, but taking $5 million as a base rate, this means 250,000 SL residents are paying at least an average of $20 per month for their in-world activity. This is $20/avg. that residents pay each other, and doesn’t even factor in revenue paid to Linden Lab through land use fees, etc…

]]> By: New World Notes: QUARTER MILLION, PLUS CHANGEhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8466 New World Notes: QUARTER MILLION, PLUS CHANGE Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:09:21 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8466 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Lots of debate on this going on elsewhere too. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%-->

[...] Lots of debate on this going on elsewhere too. [...]

]]> By: Raphhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8465 Raph Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:58:36 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8465 Doesn't look like I have it anymore, sorry! :) Doesn’t look like I have it anymore, sorry! :)

]]> By: Allen Sligarhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8464 Allen Sligar Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:50:47 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8464 Wouldnt mind having the PDF either Raph :) Wouldnt mind having the PDF either Raph :)

]]> By: The Click Heard Round the Worldhttp://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-8463 The Click Heard Round the World Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:09:49 +0000 http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/09/avatar-based-marketing/#comment-8463 <strong>Second Life Statistics Debates</strong> My posting about Second Life reaching the "quarter million residents" figure has generated quite a lot of discussion and debate about the meaning, if any, of this statistic. On the Second Life forums [viewable by registered SL residents only], most

Second Life Statistics Debates

My posting about Second Life reaching the “quarter million residents” figure has generated quite a lot of discussion and debate about the meaning, if any, of this statistic. On the Second Life forums [viewable by registered SL residents only], most

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