[...] Raph’s Website » Mischiefblog designs the next generation of MMOs Says: March 29th, 2006 at 6:56 pm [...]

MMORPG players do indeed burn out on the community eventually. Once immersed in the socail hierarchy deep enough its very hard to not burn or break. Some player shed the skin and start over, several really burn out of the title and need to start anew within the genre.

I just read in issue #2 of EON (official game magazine for Eve) that CCP and Reykjavik University are collaberating on Eve for the cellphone. They’re specifically focused on functions one can perform in a space station, which makes sense. Wouldn’t want to try some 0.0 ratting on a 2″ screen

Here’s a quote:

A limited prototype client is already running on GSM phones, which allows users to log into the game, access characters, set skilling training and manage items

They’re also looking to add chat functions. If they get this thing to access the Market, and “managing items” includes manufacturing, that’d be huge!

But even with the above, this already is an example of what I (and others) are talking about. This wouldn’t be for players new to Eve, but rather veterans who want to extend their playtime beyond the computer.

Based on my experience, I’d say that graphic clients do have an impact, but it is severely limited, and that the impact is far more illusory than real. The comment heard most often in my experience that typifies this perspective for me is “well, I picked it (an MMO) up and gave it a try. The box looked decent/the web site sounded promising/substitute whatever the “hook” was… but once I got into the game, I realized it was really just the same old grind”, sometimes followed by “40 bucks, down the drain. I won’t do _that_ again.” (and of the 3 that added that addendum, 2 have made it stick, so far…)

In other words, the graphic client may well obscure the fact that it’s the “same old, same old”, long enough for them to try it at least, but the illusion doesn’t last very long.

MUDs/MUSHes/MOOs/etc, those conforming to the “must accommodate vanilla telnet” standard at least, didn’t have the advantage of that illusion. I’d agree that “MMO burnout” may well be a slower burn due to graphics, but looking to graphics to “eliminate” burnout would be ill-advised, IMO.

So if you had enough of EverQuest and move on, and after a while start playing WoW or whatever other MMORPG, that is not what MUD Burnout is about. MUD Burnout means you get burned out not only by one game, but by the whole genre of MUDs. Raph sees the reason for that in the games mechanic of MUDs (and as such with MMORPGs too). I disagree with him in this point. For me, not having a highend client is one very important key part for many reasons (see my other comments for details), why MUDs face MUD Burnout.

I haven’t really seen this happen that much – on the whole people seem to tire of a particular MMORPG, and go looking for another MMORPG to replace it, rather than dropping the genre as a whole. That said, I do think that the current crop of MMORPGs (the Everquest based ones) are prime targets for this kind of burnout – it may take longer, which I agree probably has to do with the presentation, but I think that after a few MMORPGs in the Everquest style (timesinks, level grinds) that the whole genre may rapidly start to look unnapealing – I know it does for me. SWG didn’t give me MUD burnout, because it was inherently easy and quick to pick up and play – you could create a character from scratch, and be a master in your profession in a few days, as well as having a fair amount of freedom to personalise your skill set. Even though I ended up tiring of the game, I was looking forward to finding other similar ones. WoW, however, has burnt me out. I really don’t see the benefit in picking up another similar MMORPG which requires hours of grinding for no other purpose than to grind more, however pretty the package is.

So, given that definition of MUD burnout, I’d be inclined to agree that good MMORPGs may not suffer from it, or at least may suffer to a much lesser degree, even though they share the same basic engine with MUDs.

MUD Burnout is kind of a “law” (there might be a better term for that, sorry, my english is limited ) amongst MUDs. It means, as Raph said, that you’ll see players vanishing after about 2 years in average of playing MUD(s) completely. They either start to code MUDs from there on or they vanish and you most likely will never see them again in any MUD.

So if you had enough of EverQuest and move on, and after a while start playing WoW or whatever other MMORPG, that is not what MUD Burnout is about. MUD Burnout means you get burned out not only by one game, but by the whole genre of MUDs. Raph sees the reason for that in the games mechanic of MUDs (and as such with MMORPGs too). I disagree with him in this point. For me, not having a highend client is one very important key part for many reasons (see my other comments for details), why MUDs face MUD Burnout.

Let me say it like that, two diferent shooter games most likely just differ in the clients and very little in gameplay mechanics. But players see the screenshots of a new shooter with this great new engine, and they catch interest right away. (But that’s only one point, there are many more about clients)

That does not imply that you’ll never lose interest in all shooters – you will at one point. But that is not what MUD Burnout is about (well, maybe it is with shooters, I don’t know too much about shooter But I’m sure, if all shooters had the exact same graphics and would only slightly differ in mechanics, you would see MUD Burnout happen to them very clearly). And I think that is (one reason) why MMORPGs do not – at least not in the way MUDs do – face MUD burnout. Because they HAVE evolving clients and that changes a hell of a lot.

@Darniag: Sure, that’s why I think MMORPGs have a fair chance in becoming a regular recreation activity for the masses. It’s not because of one thing, you could have all you said with MUDs too. MMORPGs may be still MUDs under the surface, but it’s exactly this surface that makes the diference. And that makes it possible to go on and maybe have the things like you say in future MMORPGs. Because there is (or might be) a merket for it.

Wilfried wrote:

Your AH trades, while they don’t need a 3D client, couldn’t work without lots of players playing the game with the graphical client. That is (partly) what decides about the success of a MMORPG. Again, I’m not talking of fancy graphics, I’m talking about what exactly reaches the player and how. That’s not only the client, but it is for sure not only the server either.

I agree this wouldn’t work as the only way to play the game. In fact, I don’t even think this is a compelling launch feature. However, I’m thinking about the WoW of 15 months later, where the veterans are comfortable with the game and how they manage their real world schedule around it. Some AH traders may actually sit in the AH all day long doing high/low. But I imagine they’re rare. For the rest, I’m thinking about WoW beyond the single-PC-installed client. Something like this:

- Play to solo, group, raid for quests or drops: PC Client required.
- Play to solo quest in a specific instance (EQ2 here): Console or Sony PSP (processing power).
- Play to trade: Any platform mentioned, add in cellphones.

This is not one person doing any of these one activities exclusively. It’d be about empowering them to do all of these activities on their time. I’m thinking about someone who can maximize their time ingame based on the activity. At home on the PC, they can do anything. But if they could do cellphone trades on the way to or from work (or heck, heh, at work ), that’d free up their night-time session for other things.

I’ve long been a fan of bringing the game to the player rather than restricting them to a medium. Technology is catching up with that. This isn’t to diminish the nightmare of complexity the above scenario would be to implement of course

Mike Rozak wrote:

Actually, the 3D graphics provide some gameplay that can’t exist (cleanly) with text, and vice versa. Since my world straddles the two, I keenly notice these. On the whole, text MUDs and graphical MMORPGs have more commonalities than differences.

Gameplay elements that can’t exist cleanly, but which also aren’t often used in MMORPGs either. How often is the archer actually asked to aim, rather than rely on statistical distance and stat-adjusted chance-to-hit? How many run/jump floating platforms are out there with real penalties for missing? Heck, how many of these games truly operate in a third dimension to begin with? CoH and Planetside come to mind, but those stand unique.

I do totally agree that what can be done in a 3D graphic space more easily delivers an immersive experience than text. I just don’t see much example of that yet.

Craig Huber wrote:

I’d guess the combat differences you reference are the parry/tumbling options… I’m not enamored of the implementation specifics, which leaves me less appreciative than I probably should be of their merits.

I agree with you there. I like DDO for what they’re trying They do also take into consideration actual positioning (WoW does this somewhat, though even DAoC did it better imho), use of ammo, realtime swinging/firing, and so on. I consider it partially akin to Planetside in this regard. Most actions require a player who’s good in traditional MMORPG stuff as well as general spatial relations, with a dose of manual dexterity and quick decision-changing thrown in.

I’d guess the combat differences you reference are the parry/tumbling options… I’m not enamored of the implementation specifics, which leaves me less appreciative than I probably should be of their merits.

Thanks for the additional perspective…

Also, I can’t stress enough that player tutorials need to be deep and explain not just the mechanics of play, but they need to explain the world and its backstory, and draw you into the story right away.

There is also a huge need for the makers of the games to keep frequently updated documentation and in game help files for players to access so they do not feel lost or directionless or “dumb”.

Athela