[...] The subject of instancing has been a fascinating part of the Vanguard forums, as it is a very divisive issue (clearly seen in this thread). In response to an article written here: http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?…fansite_id=118 Brad McQuaid posted a long treatise on his views of instancing which can be read from here: http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2166 This led to something of a minor flood of responses amongst the MMO development community, with posts by Ralph Koster of SOE here: http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=176 And a response from Mythic’s Scott Jennings here: http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=6897 Reading these threads will put you well on your way towards a pH.d in instancing. As for myself, I view instancing as a flawed idea that has become more flawed in execution. While it starts from a simple and laudable premise, e.g. "How can we make the game more fun for the player?" it damages the community by segregating the population. Instances are also, in my opinion, boring. I enjoyed WoW for some time, but quickly realized that all the instances were on rails. For example, the Scarlet Monastery was always the same. Once you understood its mechanics there was never any variety or change to it. And the game was designed to rely on these instances for progression. Frustrating though it may be, human beings are the flies in the ointment. And that’s a good thing. Imagine a bustling marketplace without the bustle. It’s empty and devoid of life. The joy of the experience is taken away from you. That is how I feel about instancing. [...]

[...] The software engineer in me can’t resist the design aspect of these games. Chasing articles, I saw a post by Raph Koster in response to Brad McQuaid’s essay on dungeon instancing. Go read Raph’s article which I think is a good summary of and commentary on Brad’s article. Don’t worry, I’ll wait. [...]

[...] Broken Toys: A rare instance of thought! [...]

[...] A rare instance of thought! Provoked by Brad McQuaid’s instancing manifesto, and Raph Koster’s comments on it. Edit: Jason Booth also weighs in on the benefits of instance-friendly game design and where it can lead us. [...]

[...] Developer Arguments, YEE HAW!! on instancing. The article that kicked it off. Brads response Raphs response Scotts response (and I have no idea who he is…) Johns response (….. no ideas on who he is either) Grab a beer and kick your feet back. Its going to take awhile – but a good "reads" nonetheless. I enjoyed a the open and heartfelt discussion that generally, as a player, I often dont get to see. Although I disagreed to some points, agreed with others – I appreciated the in depth review and look into instancing. Albeit, probably wont see too many more discussions like this again Apparently the whole thing caused quite an uproar. -V [...]

[...] Now, before I tell you how I fucked up my Vanguard app, (hell, I’ll even SHOW you), let me say in my own defense that I had just read the hubbubbub about McQuaid and his anti-instancing quackery. (Missed the melee? Go read: The Cesspit’s detailed summary, GamerGod’s reprint of McQuaid’s instancing manifesto, Lum jumps into the fray, even Sony’s Koster climbs aboard.) [...]

[...] The dichotomies of instancing Submitted by Abalieno on December 6, 2005 – 13:56. The fun trio: Brad, Raph and Lum. [...]

IIRC Steve Nichols had a number of co-creators. Myself among them for The Realm’s beta and 1.0 versions. Dunno what happened to him after Sierra’s Oakhurst facility got closed.

Thinking about Brad’s article and the replies to it:

Brad talks about how competing with other players for an item will make winning it sweeter.

” By making items easier to get, human nature dictates that at least a lot (most?) of people will find they value these items less, that their sense of accomplishment and attachment to a virtual character or item is diminished. People tend to value things they had to work for more than things they obtained more easily, or for no real effort.”

No argument, but…

Whatever quest or trial the player goes through should be challenging, right? Wouldn’t that trial generate perceived value for the player? If it doesn’t, there’s something wrong with the quest or trial. A player will not automatically undervalue an item simply because he didn’t have to compete against other players.

Moreover, the method by which players compete for an item should be interesting.

Nothing destoys a game’s charm faster than tedium. Remember that line.

Playing repeated rounds of “who clicks on the item first wins” is tedious, especially if it is preceeded by an arduous or annoying trial. Brad acknowledges this implicitly, but in his zeal to promote “opportunity to experience content” (and along with it some form of player competition to limit who has access to that content), I’m not sure he “gets it.”

The Real World is *nothing* if not tedious. There’s only so “real” we ever want to be.

[...] have been. http://www.vanguardsoh.com/(Post a new comment) vultraxnytewind 2005-12-12 08:19 pm UTC (link) I am pretty amiable towards Brad McQuaid, {ba-dum chsss) so I am looking forward to it. I don’t1, as opposed to World of Warcraft. Who knows.(Reply to this) ilian 2005-12-12 08:27 pm UTC (link) Vanguard is the game all the hard-core masochistical old school mmo players are heralding as thestill be “fun” in the modern mmorpg era.(Reply to this) (Thread) thefaux 2005-12-12 09:19 pm UTC (link) Seconded. Vanguard is going to be for masochists.I don’t know who thinks mindlesslyI’m sure they’d enjoy Vanguard. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) ilian 2005-12-12 09:23 pm UTC (link) funny you mention instances. Vanguard is _extremely_ opposed to instances of any kind.I know youdungeons though =p(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) thefaux 2005-12-12 09:57 pm UTC (link) The concept for instances is a good one and I don’t see why anyone would so vehemently oppose it.I’d love to hear their reasoning.(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) ilian 2005-12-12 10:04 pm UTC (link) sure, here is one of many things Brad has written about how much he hatessaid by Brad and many other parties =p(Reply to this) (Parent) hitoriga 2005-12-12 08:30 pm UTC (link) EQ was the pinnicle of my MMO experience. Nothing has ever quite been able to capture ” That eqin Korea. God I hope they can pull this off.(Reply to this) kneedrawp 2005-12-12 09:04 pm UTC (link) OH NO YOU DON’T!http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareID=1424(Reply to this) (Thread)thefaux 2005-12-12 09:18 pm UTC (link) That’s gonna be one bitchin’ MMO. (Reply to this) (Parent) mode7overworld 2005-12-12 09:16 pm(link) It looks like it has the same generic art direction as EQ2, complete with the”we-can’t-bumpmap-in-moderation” character models that look like rejects from the covers of throwaway paperback fantasy novels. [...]