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> <channel><title>Comments on: Thinking like the audience&#8230;</title> <atom:link href="http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/</link> <description>Raph Koster&#039;s personal website: MMOs, gaming, writing, art, music, books</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:02:55 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Amberyl</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link> <dc:creator>Amberyl</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:54:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-151</guid> <description>Tangentially:
Really what you seem to be saying is that European classical music before the Romantic era, uninfluenced by anything else,  is less complex rhythmically. ;) The increased complexity of counterpoint, both in terms of harmony and rhythm, as well as the decreased reliance on formal structure, influence of non-European music, etc. changes the way that later compositions are analyzed.
The classical recording world is interesting from the perspective of the sheer number of remasters that end up being done, over time, from the original masters (typically analog masters). The audio engineering approaches vary quite dramatically, particularly when noise-reduction techniques are also applied. I end up having, in my collection, multiple versions of the same historic recordings, as a result. (Performances end up being prized for their interpretive qualities, I think; ideally the sonics will be there, as well, but for collectors, performance tends to trump recording quality.)
I still need to read that site in its entirety... interesting stuff.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tangentially:</p><p>Really what you seem to be saying is that European classical music before the Romantic era, uninfluenced by anything else,  is less complex rhythmically. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> The increased complexity of counterpoint, both in terms of harmony and rhythm, as well as the decreased reliance on formal structure, influence of non-European music, etc. changes the way that later compositions are analyzed.</p><p>The classical recording world is interesting from the perspective of the sheer number of remasters that end up being done, over time, from the original masters (typically analog masters). The audio engineering approaches vary quite dramatically, particularly when noise-reduction techniques are also applied. I end up having, in my collection, multiple versions of the same historic recordings, as a result. (Performances end up being prized for their interpretive qualities, I think; ideally the sonics will be there, as well, but for collectors, performance tends to trump recording quality.)</p><p>I still need to read that site in its entirety&#8230; interesting stuff.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Drive-By Linkage</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link> <dc:creator>Zen of Design&#187;Blog Archive &#187; Drive-By Linkage</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:45:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-150</guid> <description>[...] Last, Raph points out &#8220;Think Like a Player&#8221;, a bunch of design tips for Interactive Fiction that are also illuminating for those making commercial endeavors.           &#8226; &#8226; &#8226; [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div
style="padding:15px; border-left:1px solid #dedede; border-bottom:3px solid #CCEBF7; background-color:#fcfeff"><p>[...] Last, Raph points out &#8220;Think Like a Player&#8221;, a bunch of design tips for Interactive Fiction that are also illuminating for those making commercial endeavors.           &#8226; &#8226; &#8226; [...]</p></div> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Youdaman</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link> <dc:creator>Youdaman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:30:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-148</guid> <description>Well you can modify just the graphics of Q3A to a top-down perspective whilst leaving the rest intact -- see &quot;Non-Invasive Interactive Visualization of Dynamic Architectural Environments&quot; for a prototypical example, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gfx/pubs/archsplit/
The atoms don&#039;t change if you&#039;re talking about the actions available to players, it&#039;s just that some player input (like moving the crosshair up and down) becomes redundant. It&#039;s still a possible input by the player, but it&#039;s of little or no use due to the change in the graphical presentation. So the only change is the visualisation of the Q3A information in this example.
Quite often a videogame is criticised for lacking a coherent graphical presentation. As I said before, the graphics of a game consist of both informative and decorative graphics, and some graphics meet both definitions, especially if adding to immersion that might suggest particular action a la J.J. Gibson&#039;s Affordance Theory http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/affordances-and-design.html and  http://www.tech.purdue.edu/cg/courses/cgt112/lectures/gibson_affordance_theory.htm
I&#039;m talking about game design existing as theory that needs to be applied in the form of code. I agree with you, and people like Chris Hecker and Chris Crawford have also mentioned game designers should at least be aware of coding issues so their enthusiasm for a particular ground-breaking type of gameplay can be somewhat grounded by what&#039;s possible in terms of technology. However, much of the literature out there to do with game design doesn&#039;t suggest a bridge between a particular set of rules for what a game is, and how those rules can be applied as algorithms. It&#039;s up to the &quot;multi-class&quot; designer-programmers to create that bridge for better game design discourse. You&#039;ve attempted to do it symbolically with your &quot;Grammar of Gameplay&quot;, and I&#039;m attempting to do it conceptually in terms of an object-oriented framework or game-graphic mapping.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well you can modify just the graphics of Q3A to a top-down perspective whilst leaving the rest intact &#8212; see &#8220;Non-Invasive Interactive Visualization of Dynamic Architectural Environments&#8221; for a prototypical example, <a
href="http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gfx/pubs/archsplit/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gfx/pubs/archsplit/</a></p><p>The atoms don&#8217;t change if you&#8217;re talking about the actions available to players, it&#8217;s just that some player input (like moving the crosshair up and down) becomes redundant. It&#8217;s still a possible input by the player, but it&#8217;s of little or no use due to the change in the graphical presentation. So the only change is the visualisation of the Q3A information in this example.</p><p>Quite often a videogame is criticised for lacking a coherent graphical presentation. As I said before, the graphics of a game consist of both informative and decorative graphics, and some graphics meet both definitions, especially if adding to immersion that might suggest particular action a la J.J. Gibson&#8217;s Affordance Theory <a
href="http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/affordances-and-design.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/affordances-and-design.html</a> and <a
href="http://www.tech.purdue.edu/cg/courses/cgt112/lectures/gibson_affordance_theory.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.tech.purdue.edu/cg/courses/cgt112/lectures/gibson_affordance_theory.htm</a></p><p>I&#8217;m talking about game design existing as theory that needs to be applied in the form of code. I agree with you, and people like Chris Hecker and Chris Crawford have also mentioned game designers should at least be aware of coding issues so their enthusiasm for a particular ground-breaking type of gameplay can be somewhat grounded by what&#8217;s possible in terms of technology. However, much of the literature out there to do with game design doesn&#8217;t suggest a bridge between a particular set of rules for what a game is, and how those rules can be applied as algorithms. It&#8217;s up to the &#8220;multi-class&#8221; designer-programmers to create that bridge for better game design discourse. You&#8217;ve attempted to do it symbolically with your &#8220;Grammar of Gameplay&#8221;, and I&#8217;m attempting to do it conceptually in terms of an object-oriented framework or game-graphic mapping.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:28:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-147</guid> <description>Youdaman, three things...
1) I would argue that by making that change to Quake, you are definitely changing a LOT more than just the information conveyed to players. The actual physical movements you do are altered; the challenges involved in shooting a target all change; the nature of navigation itself changes. If you do an atomic diagram of the game, most of the lower-level actions will be different. Don&#039;t get too caught up in the information change (which &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; there, don&#039;t get me wrong)--you&#039;re changing things on multiple axes at once.
2) Tufte (and info visualization in general) is generally interested in maximum transparency; a game is not. Nor is all relevant info for making decisions the sole useful graphic content in games; presentation also carries the metaphor. Of course games these days pay too much attention to presentation -- and simultaneously, they often pay not enough attention too. A typical flaw is good graphics tech and poor art direction.
3) Lastly, statements like
&lt;blockquote&gt;game design is theoretical anyway, until it’s realised as code. The only limitations are the imagination of the designer, the ability of the programmer, and how they communicate — how readily the design becomes the artifact.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
are why it&#039;s good for game designers to learn to program -- because I have to say this statement is just wrong. :) Game design almost never operates purely in the realm of theory, any more than any other craft operates within the realm of theory. The limitations of code are very real, for all that they are virtual, and it&#039;s not all driven by the limitations of the programmer.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Youdaman, three things&#8230;</p><p>1) I would argue that by making that change to Quake, you are definitely changing a LOT more than just the information conveyed to players. The actual physical movements you do are altered; the challenges involved in shooting a target all change; the nature of navigation itself changes. If you do an atomic diagram of the game, most of the lower-level actions will be different. Don&#8217;t get too caught up in the information change (which <b>is</b> there, don&#8217;t get me wrong)&#8211;you&#8217;re changing things on multiple axes at once.</p><p>2) Tufte (and info visualization in general) is generally interested in maximum transparency; a game is not. Nor is all relevant info for making decisions the sole useful graphic content in games; presentation also carries the metaphor. Of course games these days pay too much attention to presentation &#8212; and simultaneously, they often pay not enough attention too. A typical flaw is good graphics tech and poor art direction.</p><p>3) Lastly, statements like</p><blockquote><p>game design is theoretical anyway, until it’s realised as code. The only limitations are the imagination of the designer, the ability of the programmer, and how they communicate — how readily the design becomes the artifact.</p></blockquote><p>are why it&#8217;s good for game designers to learn to program &#8212; because I have to say this statement is just wrong. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Game design almost never operates purely in the realm of theory, any more than any other craft operates within the realm of theory. The limitations of code are very real, for all that they are virtual, and it&#8217;s not all driven by the limitations of the programmer.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wolfe</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link> <dc:creator>Wolfe</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:15:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-145</guid> <description>The modern audio engineer strives towards utilizing the maximum fiedelity or the medium. (This is basically the same as making the mix the loudest possible.)
I wont hesitate to agree with the statement that lack of dynamic contrast makes for a less stimulating musical experience. A basic problem with modern music is however the length of the experience when consumed through the medium which promote them. (TV and Radio.)
The image of the perfect mix as a &quot;wall of sound&quot; has probably gotten somewhat out of hand, but with radio and TV double-compressing everything to fit their own audio profile a nice and dynamic mix often gets compressed to swing backward unless mastered to a non-dynamic volume level.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The modern audio engineer strives towards utilizing the maximum fiedelity or the medium. (This is basically the same as making the mix the loudest possible.)</p><p>I wont hesitate to agree with the statement that lack of dynamic contrast makes for a less stimulating musical experience. A basic problem with modern music is however the length of the experience when consumed through the medium which promote them. (TV and Radio.)</p><p>The image of the perfect mix as a &#8220;wall of sound&#8221; has probably gotten somewhat out of hand, but with radio and TV double-compressing everything to fit their own audio profile a nice and dynamic mix often gets compressed to swing backward unless mastered to a non-dynamic volume level.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Youdaman</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-144</link> <dc:creator>Youdaman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:13:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-144</guid> <description>The only difference in the controls of top-down Q3A and first-person Q3A would be that the top-down version doesn&#039;t make use of the up-down axis for aiming at other avatars, and perhaps in that case jumping and crouching would also be redundant -- you could still use the WASD keys for navigation. But that&#039;s my point: by changing the graphical representation of the information in the game world, you *are* fundamentally alterning the game. However, it is not just the atoms/moves available to players, but the knowledge players have available to them that is also changed. It&#039;s this second part that&#039;s often overlooked in the literature, or at least not often discussed in the same breath.
I&#039;m not saying a top-down version of Q3A is better, just different, and this difference can be expressed in terms of existing concepts in Mathematical Game Theory. Something like perfect/imperfect information is  not high-level either -- it&#039;s one of the fundamentals of Game Theory, as illustrated by the classic Prisoner&#039;s Dilemma example.
An aside: anyone reading &quot;game theory&quot; and thinking &quot;ludology&quot; -- we&#039;re talking about Mathematical Game Theory, not the critique of videogames from a socialogical/philosophical perspective. I agree with Chris Crawford that ludology is &quot;a body of insightful work that avoids mentioning anything of utility to game designers&quot; -- see http://www.igda.org/columns/ivorytower/ivory_May04.php
I don&#039;t regard all decorative graphics as extraneous, but in terms of Tufte&#039;s data-ink principle, most decorative graphics aren&#039;t necessary for player decisions as they don&#039;t inform the player of anything pertaining to their next move. I believe decorative graphics are necessary because they assist with immersion, and perhaps in that case they are conducive to players being more focussed when making gameplay decisions, but again, it&#039;s oft-cried that videogames have become graphical showcases and the gameplay side of things has been somewhat drowned. As Doug Church said, genre has become the new shorthand for game design. Genre that&#039;s heavily determined by decorative graphics. Remember how the old classic videogames gave you enough information using only coloured squares? The rest of the game was a visualisation -- but then it mostly resided in the player&#039;s mind instead of the screen.
As for thinking virtual resources are infinite is a mistake, and that videogames only theoretically take away limitations, I&#039;d point out that game design is theoretical anyway, until it&#039;s realised as code. The only limitations are the imagination of the designer, the ability of the programmer, and how they communicate -- how readily the design becomes the artifact. That&#039;s the path I&#039;m on, developing a framework for videogame design that is an extension of Game Theory and Visualisation. The glue, and ingredient that will hopefully enable the transition from design to code are the Design Patterns of Gamma et al. Anyway, back to atoms and such, I think they&#039;re good, great, wonderful, but perhaps a focus on a distinction between game and graphic might be of some benefit.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only difference in the controls of top-down Q3A and first-person Q3A would be that the top-down version doesn&#8217;t make use of the up-down axis for aiming at other avatars, and perhaps in that case jumping and crouching would also be redundant &#8212; you could still use the WASD keys for navigation. But that&#8217;s my point: by changing the graphical representation of the information in the game world, you *are* fundamentally alterning the game. However, it is not just the atoms/moves available to players, but the knowledge players have available to them that is also changed. It&#8217;s this second part that&#8217;s often overlooked in the literature, or at least not often discussed in the same breath.</p><p>I&#8217;m not saying a top-down version of Q3A is better, just different, and this difference can be expressed in terms of existing concepts in Mathematical Game Theory. Something like perfect/imperfect information is  not high-level either &#8212; it&#8217;s one of the fundamentals of Game Theory, as illustrated by the classic Prisoner&#8217;s Dilemma example.</p><p>An aside: anyone reading &#8220;game theory&#8221; and thinking &#8220;ludology&#8221; &#8212; we&#8217;re talking about Mathematical Game Theory, not the critique of videogames from a socialogical/philosophical perspective. I agree with Chris Crawford that ludology is &#8220;a body of insightful work that avoids mentioning anything of utility to game designers&#8221; &#8212; see <a
href="http://www.igda.org/columns/ivorytower/ivory_May04.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.igda.org/columns/ivorytower/ivory_May04.php</a></p><p>I don&#8217;t regard all decorative graphics as extraneous, but in terms of Tufte&#8217;s data-ink principle, most decorative graphics aren&#8217;t necessary for player decisions as they don&#8217;t inform the player of anything pertaining to their next move. I believe decorative graphics are necessary because they assist with immersion, and perhaps in that case they are conducive to players being more focussed when making gameplay decisions, but again, it&#8217;s oft-cried that videogames have become graphical showcases and the gameplay side of things has been somewhat drowned. As Doug Church said, genre has become the new shorthand for game design. Genre that&#8217;s heavily determined by decorative graphics. Remember how the old classic videogames gave you enough information using only coloured squares? The rest of the game was a visualisation &#8212; but then it mostly resided in the player&#8217;s mind instead of the screen.</p><p>As for thinking virtual resources are infinite is a mistake, and that videogames only theoretically take away limitations, I&#8217;d point out that game design is theoretical anyway, until it&#8217;s realised as code. The only limitations are the imagination of the designer, the ability of the programmer, and how they communicate &#8212; how readily the design becomes the artifact. That&#8217;s the path I&#8217;m on, developing a framework for videogame design that is an extension of Game Theory and Visualisation. The glue, and ingredient that will hopefully enable the transition from design to code are the Design Patterns of Gamma et al. Anyway, back to atoms and such, I think they&#8217;re good, great, wonderful, but perhaps a focus on a distinction between game and graphic might be of some benefit.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-143</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:51:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-143</guid> <description>Hmm, I have to disagree on the classical music complexity part. Although we can debate whether 20th c. orchestral music is actually &quot;classical&quot; anymore. Also, by the time you hit the late 19th and then early 20th c., it&#039;s starting to absorb a lot of the more syncopated rhythms from jazz and Latin influences.
When analyzing a piece of classical music, you generally look for a few things -- the harmonic progression and the basic rhythmic statement of the piece. Something like the famous opening of Beethoven&#039;s 9th, for example, has a rhythmic unit that is varied in length and tempo, but is still recognizable throughout the first movement. Compared to the rhythms found in be-bop, it&#039;s pretty basic. There doesn&#039;t tend to be much use of polyrhythms, for example, until later. IMHO, anyway. YMMV. :)
I think the audio engineer would point out that while much of the dynamic contrast is determined by the orchestration, a lot of it is also in the recording and the conducting, in the case of classical. That&#039;s probably part of why certain recordings of familiar pieces are more prized than others... when you read his articles, he&#039;s emphasizing dynamic contrast on levels most listeners don&#039;t even think about, and beyond the usual layman&#039;s (or even musician&#039;s) use of the term &quot;dynamics,&quot; discussing stuff like RMS, transient 40hz impacts, and natural overtones.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I have to disagree on the classical music complexity part. Although we can debate whether 20th c. orchestral music is actually &#8220;classical&#8221; anymore. Also, by the time you hit the late 19th and then early 20th c., it&#8217;s starting to absorb a lot of the more syncopated rhythms from jazz and Latin influences.</p><p>When analyzing a piece of classical music, you generally look for a few things &#8212; the harmonic progression and the basic rhythmic statement of the piece. Something like the famous opening of Beethoven&#8217;s 9th, for example, has a rhythmic unit that is varied in length and tempo, but is still recognizable throughout the first movement. Compared to the rhythms found in be-bop, it&#8217;s pretty basic. There doesn&#8217;t tend to be much use of polyrhythms, for example, until later. IMHO, anyway. YMMV. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p><p>I think the audio engineer would point out that while much of the dynamic contrast is determined by the orchestration, a lot of it is also in the recording and the conducting, in the case of classical. That&#8217;s probably part of why certain recordings of familiar pieces are more prized than others&#8230; when you read his articles, he&#8217;s emphasizing dynamic contrast on levels most listeners don&#8217;t even think about, and beyond the usual layman&#8217;s (or even musician&#8217;s) use of the term &#8220;dynamics,&#8221; discussing stuff like RMS, transient 40hz impacts, and natural overtones.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Amberyl</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-142</link> <dc:creator>Amberyl</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:19:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-142</guid> <description>Classical music is very rhythmically complex -- you just need to look at music composed in the late 19th century and later. From that period on, rhythm as well as harmony significantly surpasses just about everything you&#039;ll find in  popular music. It&#039;s not really melody that&#039;s any more complex, although it could be.
Very interesting article on music, though. I&#039;m struck by the fact that the high level of dynamic contrast really characterizes one classical composer that practically everyone likes, even if they &quot;don&#039;t like classical music&quot; -- Beethoven. His music&#039;s practically defined by it. Much the same could be said of the sturm-und-drang composers -- a good chunk of Haydn and some Mozart, say.
&quot;Taste&quot; is interestingly subjective. People love the Three Tenors recordings, for instance, even though they&#039;re largely in awful taste, and the superstar tenors involved would almost certainly not get away with singing like that in any situation with a conductor in control.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classical music is very rhythmically complex &#8212; you just need to look at music composed in the late 19th century and later. From that period on, rhythm as well as harmony significantly surpasses just about everything you&#8217;ll find in  popular music. It&#8217;s not really melody that&#8217;s any more complex, although it could be.</p><p>Very interesting article on music, though. I&#8217;m struck by the fact that the high level of dynamic contrast really characterizes one classical composer that practically everyone likes, even if they &#8220;don&#8217;t like classical music&#8221; &#8212; Beethoven. His music&#8217;s practically defined by it. Much the same could be said of the sturm-und-drang composers &#8212; a good chunk of Haydn and some Mozart, say.</p><p>&#8220;Taste&#8221; is interestingly subjective. People love the Three Tenors recordings, for instance, even though they&#8217;re largely in awful taste, and the superstar tenors involved would almost certainly not get away with singing like that in any situation with a conductor in control.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Righ</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-141</link> <dc:creator>Righ</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:25:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-141</guid> <description>I&#039;m a fan of fairly complex progressive rock, and I&#039;m pretty much in agreement with everything the sound engineer says. One of the best practitioners of high dynamic contrast in the pre-digital years was Conny Plank. Even when the music was merely adequate, some of the soundscapes Plank produced make the recordings simply magical to listen to. Although I&#039;d recommend getting hold of Grobschnitt&#039;s &quot;Rockpomell&#039;s Land&quot;, you could as well hear some of the magic on more mundane (!) but more easily obtained recordings such as Kraftwerk&#039;s &quot;Autobahn&quot;, Ultravox&#039;s &quot;Vienna&quot; or Eurythmics&#039; &quot;In The Garden&quot;.
I think it&#039;s all about mental stimuli without exaustion. We enjoy background complexity that we can focus on for short periods, but we like to have simplicity and repetition as a crutch to lean on. Simple rules, things you can learn to follow without pressure and complex designs to unfold in order to keep you preoccupied.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a fan of fairly complex progressive rock, and I&#8217;m pretty much in agreement with everything the sound engineer says. One of the best practitioners of high dynamic contrast in the pre-digital years was Conny Plank. Even when the music was merely adequate, some of the soundscapes Plank produced make the recordings simply magical to listen to. Although I&#8217;d recommend getting hold of Grobschnitt&#8217;s &#8220;Rockpomell&#8217;s Land&#8221;, you could as well hear some of the magic on more mundane (!) but more easily obtained recordings such as Kraftwerk&#8217;s &#8220;Autobahn&#8221;, Ultravox&#8217;s &#8220;Vienna&#8221; or Eurythmics&#8217; &#8220;In The Garden&#8221;.</p><p>I think it&#8217;s all about mental stimuli without exaustion. We enjoy background complexity that we can focus on for short periods, but we like to have simplicity and repetition as a crutch to lean on. Simple rules, things you can learn to follow without pressure and complex designs to unfold in order to keep you preoccupied.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Raph</title><link>http://www.raphkoster.com/2005/11/17/thinking-like-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-140</link> <dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:11:59 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.raphkoster.com/?p=160#comment-140</guid> <description>So clearly things like perfect versus imperect information are applicable, but that&#039;s a fairly high-level thing to borrow.
I think your Quake analogy is flawed, because upon analyzing the atoms that make up the top-down versus the 1st person version, you find that the core challenges are significantly different. By changing the perspective, you have done far more than change the access to information, you have also changed the action of firing from &quot;clicking on a point in 2d space&quot; to &quot;orienting a vector of force along a plan perpendicular to view.&quot; Similarly, the basic actions for movement are likewise different.
For your analogy to hold up, you&#039;d have to propose as aspect of graphical change that does not affect the core atoms. Changing imperfect to perfect information could be accomplished by being able to see through walls, for example. Of course, in my atoms, available topology is  intrinsic to an atom, so you&#039;d be changing that in my model, thus still effecting an atomic change... Hmm.
As regards info-vis, one of the classic examples is the tic-tac-toe game seen as magic square puzzle... obviously, the metaphor is important to the ultimate player experience, as you point out. But we also know that players see through metaphor and focus in the end on the mechanics. The magic square example becomes problematic because it is bad info-vis -- it imposes an additional metaphor on top of a space that really didn&#039;t need it.
But I also think it&#039;s a mistake to regard the decorative borders as being extraneous. These too have impact on the user/player, and there&#039;s plenty to draw on in the field of graphic design that can help inform the design of these types of elements.
Any developer will tell you that regarding physical resources as infinite in the process of making a videogame is a mistake too. :) Videogames only theoretically take away those limitations -- they&#039;re still a lot of work, and the fact that you can manifest a large array of what you might want via code (not, by a long stretch, &quot;everything&quot; that you might want) does not mean that you actually have infinite materials to interface with players.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So clearly things like perfect versus imperect information are applicable, but that&#8217;s a fairly high-level thing to borrow.</p><p>I think your Quake analogy is flawed, because upon analyzing the atoms that make up the top-down versus the 1st person version, you find that the core challenges are significantly different. By changing the perspective, you have done far more than change the access to information, you have also changed the action of firing from &#8220;clicking on a point in 2d space&#8221; to &#8220;orienting a vector of force along a plan perpendicular to view.&#8221; Similarly, the basic actions for movement are likewise different.</p><p>For your analogy to hold up, you&#8217;d have to propose as aspect of graphical change that does not affect the core atoms. Changing imperfect to perfect information could be accomplished by being able to see through walls, for example. Of course, in my atoms, available topology is  intrinsic to an atom, so you&#8217;d be changing that in my model, thus still effecting an atomic change&#8230; Hmm.</p><p>As regards info-vis, one of the classic examples is the tic-tac-toe game seen as magic square puzzle&#8230; obviously, the metaphor is important to the ultimate player experience, as you point out. But we also know that players see through metaphor and focus in the end on the mechanics. The magic square example becomes problematic because it is bad info-vis &#8212; it imposes an additional metaphor on top of a space that really didn&#8217;t need it.</p><p>But I also think it&#8217;s a mistake to regard the decorative borders as being extraneous. These too have impact on the user/player, and there&#8217;s plenty to draw on in the field of graphic design that can help inform the design of these types of elements.</p><p>Any developer will tell you that regarding physical resources as infinite in the process of making a videogame is a mistake too. <img
src='http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Videogames only theoretically take away those limitations &#8212; they&#8217;re still a lot of work, and the fact that you can manifest a large array of what you might want via code (not, by a long stretch, &#8220;everything&#8221; that you might want) does not mean that you actually have infinite materials to interface with players.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
